Tri Talk HomepageTri Talk EventsTri Talk ForumsBlogsTri Talk TrainingTri TradeTriPlayerWikiTeam Tri Talk
Links
 
Quality v Quantity
Mileage
P.B's
 
Swim
25m Kick board 30s (03/10/12)
50m Kick board 1:04 (03/10/12)
50m 37 (01/03/13)
100m 1:20.5 (01/03/13)
200m 3:02 (04/04/12)
400m 6:18 (22/01/13)
500m 8:10 (27/03/13) (first 500 in 1500)
750m 12:22 (27/03/13) (first 750 in 1500)
1000m 16:23 (12/02/14) (first 1k of 1500)
1500m 24:51.8 (27/03/13) OW - 23:43 - 2010
1900m 33:58 (09/09/10)
3800m 1:11:20 (24/05/11) (1:06ish @ FM but time inc. T1 1:14)
Golf - 70 (39s / 31st) (**/08/15)
CSS test 6:20 / 3:06 = 1:37 (02/05/14)
CSS fastest splits - 6:18 / 3:03 = 1:38 (22/01/13)

IM and other stuff

100IM 1:50
50 fly 48

Bike
20km 38:12
40km 1:02:35 (22/06/14)
90km 2:46:20 (18/08/12)

Run
5km 22:38 (07/05/12) (Tonbridge Tri)
10km 45:41
Half mara 1:46:44 (24/02/13) (Tunbridge Wells)
Marathon 4:09:11 (13/04/14) (VMLM)
30min TM - 6120m
5km TM 22:50 (25/04/12)

Tri's
(400/20/5) 1:11:33(Eton SS 2009)
Sprint 1:34:55(Blenheim 2008, only standard distance sprint!)
7oaks 1:48:14 (27/04/14)
Tonbridge 1:23:28 (May 2012)
Oly 2:18:31 (Dartford 2014)
70.3 5:34:55 (Midnightman 2012)
Iron 14:21:58 (Forestman 2011)
Me
 
In 2002 i ruptured my ACL and MCL playing football and was told i would not be having an op on the NHS and could never play again (along with many other things!)... After doing some freeride / downhill MTB'ing for a couple of years, I starting to swim again in August 07 and thought, i cycle, i swim...all i need to do is run a little..how about earning a little money for charity and sign up for the London Oly! I went on to enjoy my first season in tri so much I have done a 2nd, gone sub 2:30 for an Olympic distance got round an ironman and am still going!
When not training I can be seen at the Boleyn Ground being a long suffering season ticket holder at the 1966 World cup winners West Ham Rolling Eyes
Calendar 11 - 2018
 
<  Nov, 2018   >
SuMoTuWeThFrSa
 123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930 
Log in
 
Log in
Username:

Password:


All about hammerer
 

hammerer
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

 Send private message
  
 
  
  
 
Quantity V Quality
Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:52 pm hammerer
  Reply with quote  
View user's profile
A very good question to my last post by The Prawn made me go back and start to think about this a little more. I thought to myself that many people say its quality over quantity, so my first question is what makes a session quality? Many people mention junk miles, and that these are not quality so to start what exactly are junk miles?
ďJunk milesĒ is a term Iíve never understood because to me any miles are good miles. If you are riding a bike you are always gaining something, whether that is handling, climbing, changing gear or descending, when running you are always getting time on the feet, which in essence is making you stronger and as for swimming, well if you are in the water and actually concentrating on what you are doing, then you are always slowly improving by feeling what is happening with small changes to your stroke. Is there more to it than that though? Maybe there is no such thing as junk miles. So I broke it down further and thought if I have 30mins what would be a waste of that time. 30mins for running isnít much, so it is pretty pointless going for a jog around the block right?, 30mins allows for a 5k TT or a fartlek run, with minimal slow sections. These in essence are not traditional intervals but are quality sessions as you are working hard in the available time. Then I started to think that if you have 45 minutes for 5 days of the week, what would be a waste of that time? Well the obvious one is sitting at the desk eating or going to the pub. So what can you do in 45 minutes? I can do a fartlek session or a TT, but every day of the week? No chance. Iíll be burnt out or injured before the next rain shower. So a 45min steady run would then not be a waste of time. It gives me time on the feet adds miles and quantity, but without risking injury or other sessions. Is this quality? For me, yes. After 5 days Iíve added 25miles with some fast some steady some tempo, but most important Iíve got some much needed volume and consistency and without getting injured. So does that mean there is no such thing as junk miles or is it even appropriate to run like this? What if one day I was feeling a bit low of energy, had a little niggle then would that 5miles at a steady rate be worthwhile. Well simple answer is no of course not. It would be risking sickness, injury or maybe affect other sessions. If Iím tired I wonít get up at 6am for my morning swim. So that is not quality. To me thatís when I realised junk miles are not steady miles , they are not necessarily easy miles they are miles when you donít make the most of the time you have available but more than that they are miles that can adversely affect the rest of the schedule also. So itís not quality V quantity but quality and quantity V junk
I then thought about my long run, quantity run and how long would be quality and when or if this would ever become junk. I think this depends again on fitness and goals. This weekend 105mins would be quality but in 6 weeks, 180mins may be quality. My goal is a marathon but if it was 10k, then 120mins would not be a quality run, it would be quantity with no purpose. This would therefore be junk. It would be enjoyable, but for the purpose of a training goal its junk.

So I then thought whether this would apply to my swimming. Are there junk miles in swimming?
I took the 30min question from above and thought what would be a quality session in limited time. Some people would class quality in the pool as doing drills for 30mins and getting out, but for me I donít. A 30min swim could get 4*400 off 7mins or a 15*100 off 1:50ís at CSS pace. These are quality sets and they would help me improve my threshold and race pace, but what about technique and drills some may ask. For me technique is a constant in the water. I am always thinking about it whilst training, so even if doing these short threshold workouts, you can be working on technique. Do one of the 400ís thinking about breathing, the catch or recovery and focus solely on that part of the stroke and feel what happens when you change parts. This is quality for all swimmers and triathletes, but 30mins sessions arenít entirely appropriate for ironman. As I said in my last post quantity in swimming is the key. If youíre great for 2k and the stroke breaks down you will be slow, but is quantity mutually exclusive to quality, for me it isnít. In the pool itís a little easier on the body so you can do both. You can get the miles in as well as swimming hard. Take the 4*400 session above. Add in a 1k warm up and 500m of bands work and with the CD you have over 3k of quality work for an hour in the pool. Another good set I like is 3 or 4*1k @ IM pace so if aiming for a <60 (holding 1:34 100ís) that would be 15:40ís going off say 17mins. These are quantity sessions with quality suitable for an Ironman athlete and if you are tired add a pull buoy for one of the reps but during these sessions no matter how long or fast you go you must always be thinking about technique, working on areas, trying things and feeling if it works. This is what swimmers know as feeling the water. They know what theyíre body is doing, and utilise that so that they can modify it to make it even smoother and essentially faster. So the next time a real swimmer mentions the feel for the water this is what is meant. The more you do the more in tune you become and even subtle changes are noticeable. It is not something that can happen overnight, it is built up over 100ís of miles, and this is why I like bands. Bands accentuate this and this is why they are my new favourite toy.
So again are there junk miles in swimming? I now believe there are. They are any miles done without thinking what you are doing, without ďfeelingĒ the water. You can do 40*100 off 1:55 and think to yourself that was a quality set, but only if whilst you are doing them miles you are learning from it, refining technique as you go to make it easier and faster for you. Then next time, not only will you have the endurance gains but also the technique gains made also. So again itís not quality V quantity but quality and quantity V junk
As Iím not concerned with the cycling side until after April I had not thought much about it but the thought of when quantity becomes junk was very interesting. I commute and turbo during the week, this is all good miles for both handling and threshold / strength development but as an Ironman where does quantity become junk. We all know that riding for 8hrs at 12mph admiring the countryside will not make you a very fast ironman, but will be pretty enjoyable especially if you are with friends. A cafe stop is hardly the best use of time either so I suppose I could call that junk, but is 6hrs worthwhile? For some maybe, especially if they are not confident of doing 112 miles but for me it is not. Firstly I could make better use of 6hours and secondly if itís just a slow plod then what is the point. My favourite and most worthwhile ride last year was around 70miles or 4.5hrs. We went out and rode hills, and on the flat we rode tempo. It was a hard ride and when I got home I felt like I had worked hard and also felt that anymore would have tipped me over the edge. An extra hour or 2 but doing the lot steady really wouldnít have made me fitter or better prepared for ironman but doing more of this would have done...along with doing it on my TT bike instead. Perhaps you could say 4-5hours at varying intensities is where quantity starts to become a waste of time, therefore junk.


This all sounds very good to me, and this is why Iíve written it but it very much relates to me and my take on where I need to go. I then have to put this theory into my own lifestyle, trying to make me the best I can with the limited time I have available.
Hopefully this time next year I can refer back and see that it did actually work. That I improved across the board in all distances and all 3 sports, and key for me did I stay injury free!
_________________
Blog

Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:09 pm Sue
  Reply with quote  
View user's profile
nice working thro that for you
guess junk stuff is different to everyone, and now you know what they are for you
_________________

Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:49 am sooooooooz
  Reply with quote  
View user's profile
My old coach was a 6 min marathon miler in the 1960s and he only ever trained to 10 miles...but it was all quality. He would train in a pack and they would run each other into the ground..."you wiped the sick from your mouth and set off again" Very Happy
  Goto page 1, 2  Next 
2018 schedule
 
4th March - The Big Half Report
2015 Schedule
 
15/16th Aug Midnightman Report
2014 Schedule
 
2nd Mar - Tunbridge Wells Half Marathon Report

13th Apr - VMLM Report

27th Apr - 7oaks tri Report

22nd Jun - Bridge Tri Report

13th July - The Bastion Report

Championship XC

25th Jan - Southern XC Champs Report
2013 Schedule
 
24th Feb - Tunbridge Wells Half Marathon Report
21st Apr - VLM
28th Apr - 7oaks Tri
23rd Jun - Bridge Tri Report
14th Jul - Cowman
21st Jul - National Lottery Run Report
27/28th Jul - Midnightman Report
22nd Sep - Tonbridge Half Mara Report

Championship XC

5th Jan - KCAA XC Champs Report
2012 Schedule
 
7th May - Tonbridge sprint
Report
17th Aug - Half Midnightman Report
23rd Sep - Tonbridge Half Marathon Report

Kent XC League

8th Oct - Race 1 - New Barn Park - Report

27th Oct - Race 2 - Tonbridge - Report

1st Dec - Race 4 - Danson Park -
Report

Championship XC

7th Jan KCAA XC Champs - Report

17th Nov London XC Champs - Parliament hill Report
2011 Schedule
 
29th Jan - SEAA XC Champs (15km) - Report
20th Feb Kentish Killer sportive 73miles - DNS
27th Feb Tunbridge wells half mara - DNS
10th Apr 7oaks tri - Report
17th Apr VLM Report
2nd May Tonbridge Sprint Report
26th Jun Forestman Report
7th Aug Hyde Park Oly Report
25th Sep Tonbridge Half Mara report

Kent XC league

8th October Race 1 - New Barn Park -report
29th October Race 2 - Tonbridge -report
2010 Schedule
 
21st Mar - Reading 1/2 mara - DNS
18th Apr - 7oaks sprint - Report
30th May - Austria 70.3 - Report
13th Jun - Windsor Oly - Report
27th Jun - Dartford Bridge Oly - Report
8th Aug - London Oly - DNS
26th Sep - Run to the beat 1/2 mara Report

Kent XC league

9th Oct - Round 1 West Wickham Report

23rd Oct - Round 2 Tonbridge Report
2009 Schedule
 
19 Apr - 7oaks - Report
17 May - Eton - Report
7 Jun - Blenheim - DNS
14 Jun - Windsor - Report
2 Aug - London - Report
16 Aug - Dextro Energy Tri -Report
20 Sep - 7Oaks - Report
2008 Schedule
 
18th May - Eton Sprint
Report

8th June - Blenheim Sprint
Report

20th July - Bananaman 3/4
Report

10th August - London Olympic
Report

14th September - Orca Classic Tri
Report

5th October - London HM
21km run - DNS Mad





Home | About TT | Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions | Advertising | Contact TT
Copyright ©2003-2015 TriTalk®.co.uk. All rights reserved.