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The Sub 11 Ironman Thread
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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:05 pm    Post subject: The Sub 11 Ironman Thread Reply with quote

Inspired by the award winning Sub 10 thread, I thought I would start one of those of us with a slightly more modest target in mind for next season. I think with a consistent winter and spring of training this is something I could be aiming for. That said, my current time of 12:35 does require quite a bit of trimming. Shocked Wink


That was with a 60 / 6:05. / 5:25. The swim flatters me a bit as I got a great draft and I think the course ended up being slightly short too, although it was by far my best discipline on the day. Two years on from then I am a faster cyclist having set pbs this season over 10, 25 and 50 miles but I have still a long way to go here. I am in the process of getting my first tt bike soon so hopefully I will be purchasing a bit of speed too. Wink

The big issue for me is going to be running strongly off the bike. The 5:25 was mainly walking Crying or Very sad and I don't think I will be happy until I can do an IM and run well at the end.

So I guess I am looking at something like this:

65 / 5:30 / 4:00 / 10 for transitions 10:45 total

Hopefully, Embrunman will be my main goal for next year and that will be about having a long day out riding up silly hills but it would be great if I could get a second event in and have a 10:xx against my name too. Thinking that Challenge Weymouth is looking appealing or Cotswolds226 for a go at this.

Anyone else?
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SidSnot




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is more like it. I have been an envious reader of the sub-10 thread for some time, but I think that is a bit of a stretch for me.

I did 12:12 at IMUK in 2008 with a 57 swim ,5:01 T1 , 06:36:12 Bike , 02:13 T2, 04:30:38 run
I am doing IMWales next year. My running has improved since then and with some more work on the bike a sub 11 could be do-able with a consistent year in the lead up to IMWales.

Wheezy, your swim/bike looks good, as you say its the running off the bike that needs work.
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TRO Saracen




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*raises hand*

After two solid IM's (11:52 IMDE 2010, 11:44 IM Wales 2012) I definitely wanted sub 11 at this years IM UK.

Felt I was in shape for it but only got 11:13, (1:11, 5:57, 3:55 plus T's) but it was really mistakes in the race that cost me.
Blog and analysis of where it went wrong:

https://www.trosaracenblog.wordpress.com/

I've taken the learning from that and other areas of weakness into 2014's game plan.
Main things are:
- get swim down from c70 to sub 65
- add another 20w-25w to bike FTP
- learn to pace IM bike better, especially riding with a lower VI and within the recommended TSS/Intensity.
- pace the run better. I think IM UK's run was not just related to overcooking the bike, but going too hard in the first 10 miles rather than building into the run
- think about run nutrition. My bike nutrition was planned with military precision, then I winged it on the run. I need to have a proven strategy for IM marathons, and especially critical to get calories down early in the run.

I'm a decent runner - 3:09 and 3:13 stand alone marathons this year, and my first IM Wales was a 3:29 mara (which was short but on that pace 3:42 ish for the full distance). Thus the 3:55 IM UK marathon was down to race management errors, not run fitness.

I do think Ironman's once you get beyond 'completing' and into racing with some intensity are a different beast, and I found that out attempting sub 11. They say you need to do 4 or 5 to learn to race an ironman - I've only really raced 1.

With that in mind I have entered a TC-esque 3 next year:
IM Lanzarote and Forestman to learn, and if I get a great day and go sub 11 as well then brilliant. But I'm really hoping to nail the 3rd - IM Wales, with a sub 11.

Currently in my off season, but training proper begins on Nov 4th.

Happy to share the journey, advice etc.
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Wheezy




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You definitely seem to have a good set of numbers to work from there Sid, although IMWales isn't the fastest bike course around (looks great though). You going to be focussing on the bike?

Running, which is my best event usually, has been the hardest thing for me over the last couple of years with too many injuries. Just trying to build it up again gradually. I have learnt the hard way that running and running off the bike are two very different things.
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Wheezy




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post Saracen. Thanks for sharing.

Forestman 2012 was my one and only IM distance race to date. The masochist in me says to go back and try to get my sub11 there. The realist in me says avoid that run course like the plague Wink

Nutrition is another weak area of mine. I ve only got it right once and no surprise that was my best race to date. I think winging it during the run with nutrition is probably quite normal with so many other factors coming into play by that stage of the race but having a solid plan from the outset is something I need to get right.
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Wheezy




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TRO Saracen wrote:


Happy to share the journey, advice etc.


Please do. That's what it's about. Smile
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2 scheds




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in !


I went 12:20 at Forestman 3 years ago, tough course on a very hot day... a few years on and a bit faster, sub 11 may be within my grasp, although perhaps not at Forestman...


So, I'll be targeting Midnightman for this:

65 / 5:40 / 3:50 / 10 for transitions 10:45 total
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 scheds wrote:
I'm in !


I went 12:20 at Forestman 3 years ago, tough course on a very hot day... a few years on and a bit faster, sub 11 may be within my grasp, although perhaps not at Forestman...


So, I'll be targeting Midnightman for this:

65 / 5:40 / 3:50 / 10 for transitions 10:45 total


swims long and twisty so pretty slow. I came out 6th in 1:10 Shocked I didnt swim half bad either! laps 3 and 4 are lonely as theres no halfers to draft. this slows you down also.

bike is very twisty and can be slow especially if wet as you need to take real care on the dead turns and the two left turns are very sharp, and only 1 lane wide with curbs. two left handers onto/off the DC are quick though!

This will probably impact the run due to the constant accelerating required but I didnt make the run this year though Sad
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hillwall




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Scheds, you'll certainly have a good chance at Midnightman.

I've done 11:48 and 11:58 at Forestman during the two really hot years and did 10:44 at Midnightman (hot night, short run version).

Main difference between them for me is running a bit more of the run. I still can't decide whether I just go too hard on the bike which means I don't run the run, whether I get my nutrition wrong or whether I mentally decide that I can finish once I have completed the bike and so don't push myself much to actually run. Marathon PB is 3:07, IM marathon PB (on the 2 mile short Midnightman) 4:01. Still feel like I should be able to drop a lot from the run.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah yeah, enough talk about what you want to achieve; let's now hear how you're going to train & prepare for it Twisted Evil Wink
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hillwall wrote:
Well Scheds, you'll certainly have a good chance at Midnightman.

I've done 11:48 and 11:58 at Forestman during the two really hot years and did 10:44 at Midnightman (hot night, short run version).

Main difference between them for me is running a bit more of the run. I still can't decide whether I just go too hard on the bike which means I don't run the run, whether I get my nutrition wrong or whether I mentally decide that I can finish once I have completed the bike and so don't push myself much to actually run. Marathon PB is 3:07, IM marathon PB (on the 2 mile short Midnightman) 4:01. Still feel like I should be able to drop a lot from the run.


the changed bike course is definitely slower as it adds in 2 more dead turns and two very sharp left handers into and off of the transition straight. Would be quicker if dry though obviously.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't really have to be a good runner, just an okay one. If you can get the swim down to say 65 mins, then bike a steady 5:30, that leaves you up to 4:18 for the run if you allow 6:00 for transitions.

On the day I detonated on the last 30 km of the bike in Austria, I swam 65 (pw by 5 mins) biked 5:18 (pb by 5 min) and ran/walked 4:27 (pw by nearly an hour!) to a 10:58. As well as demonstrating the need to pace the bike (!) it demonstrates that the run isn't really the deal breaker for a sub-11, it's the swim & run you need to be solid at. Then you just need a good run/walk strategy. Finding big time on the bike is much easier than on the run at the 11-12h standard, and you're less likely to get injured doing it.
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
You don't really have to be a good runner, just an okay one. If you can get the swim down to say 65 mins, then bike a steady 5:30, that leaves you up to 4:18 for the run if you allow 6:00 for transitions.

On the day I detonated on the last 30 km of the bike in Austria, I swam 65 (pw by 5 mins) biked 5:18 (pb by 5 min) and ran/walked 4:27 (pw by nearly an hour!) to a 10:58. As well as demonstrating the need to pace the bike (!) it demonstrates that the run isn't really the deal breaker for a sub-11, it's the swim & run you need to be solid at. Then you just need a good run/walk strategy. Finding big time on the bike is much easier than on the run at the 11-12h standard, and you're less likely to get injured doing it.


Have you given up with the sub 10 thread as you just aint up to it Twisted Evil
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2 scheds




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
You don't really have to be a good runner, just an okay one. If you can get the swim down to say 65 mins, then bike a steady 5:30, that leaves you up to 4:18 for the run if you allow 6:00 for transitions.

On the day I detonated on the last 30 km of the bike in Austria, I swam 65 (pw by 5 mins) biked 5:18 (pb by 5 min) and ran/walked 4:27 (pw by nearly an hour!) to a 10:58. As well as demonstrating the need to pace the bike (!) it demonstrates that the run isn't really the deal breaker for a sub-11, it's the swim & run you need to be solid at. Then you just need a good run/walk strategy. Finding big time on the bike is much easier than on the run at the 11-12h standard, and you're less likely to get injured doing it.


I can do "OK" running (although not in Poet's eyes Rolling Eyes ) only one stand alone marathon so far @ 3:31 - hope to bag a 3:15 at my next one this November...

Had a complete melt down in my only IM Mara and limped home to a shocking 5:10... So a IM PB Mara is defo on the cards!


From what Hammy says of the MM bike course I'd hope to go 5:45, again I did 5:55 at FM 3 years ago and am now a much stronger cyclist, so even with the twists and turns...


The journey starts here with my first stint of run training leading up to late November, an easy month in December before hitting the pool and beinging the bike back in towards March.

Can't wait.

Cool
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TRO Saracen




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...'and that's gone straight into the Confectionary Stand, and back out again'.... Laughing

c Richie Benaud, during Botham's Ashes, 1981
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