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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Now Tin Pot let me turn the tables on you.

Given the following verifiable facts:-

1. The thousands of people globally who are members of remote viewing groups.
2. The dozens of trainers out there, including ex military Officers.
3. The multitude of published sessions covering literally decades.
4. The realms of declassified military stuff, which if you follow like I did can be made to work.
5. The conferences

How exactly could this, logically and rationally, be a fantasy of my own creation?


1. don't take refuge in the false security of consensus
2. being an ex military officer is hardly the high watermark of human intelligence or even rationality
3. look at the most published works covering tens of decades and then decide whether being published represents even a grain of truth
4. if anyone could get it to work then the military support networks would be using it and selling it
5. i'm off to a conference on Monday but will view the content with a degree of skepticism

For sure this is not a fantasy of your own creation...but you are possibly blinded by your desire for it to be successful...
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:

1. The thousands of people globally who are members of remote viewing groups.


There are tens of thousands of members of the Church of Scientology....
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
Now Tin Pot let me turn the tables on you.

Given the following verifiable facts:-

1. The thousands of people globally who are members of remote viewing groups.
2. The dozens of trainers out there, including ex military Officers.
3. The multitude of published sessions covering literally decades.
4. The realms of declassified military stuff, which if you follow like I did can be made to work.
5. The conferences

How exactly could this, logically and rationally, be a fantasy of my own creation?


1. don't take refuge in the false security of consensus
2. being an ex military officer is hardly the high watermark of human intelligence or even rationality
3. look at the most published works covering tens of decades and then decide whether being published represents even a grain of truth
4. if anyone could get it to work then the military support networks would be using it and selling it
5. i'm off to a conference on Monday but will view the content with a degree of skepticism

For sure this is not a fantasy of your own creation...but you are possibly blinded by your desire for it to be successful...
indeed, but equally you could be blinded precisely where I was a decade ago when I first heard about it and thought it nonsense. It is after all quite a mind shift. That said the results speak for themselves, though I give you how you interpret results is a consideration, which is why I like perception by perception scoring and databasing.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:

4. if anyone could get it to work then the military support networks would be using it and selling it
.
I am sure some are, for even I have got it to work. Getting it to work reliably and usefully are the issues, hence my last years work on usefulness.

GCHQ could easily try my, to quote Cobbie "chain of logic" at virtually no cost, assuming that they can find a single viewer who can feel salt and the other things I mentioned. (The various components of a water column) I hope that they do. If they can find such a viewer they could prove it in an afternoon.

Ejc you would be amazed, or perhaps not, at how much of a pain in the ass I am in the viewing community, to get them to be sceptical and use maths.




Added: I have assumed that GCHQ have (1) a maths geek, (2) a very detailed global oceanographic database, (3) a big computer. Obviously they will, but for accuracy and completeness.

Just don't forget to get Mr Coutts to give me my half trillion pounds.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
Now Tin Pot let me turn the tables on you.

Given the following verifiable facts:-

1. The thousands of people globally who are members of remote viewing groups.
2. The dozens of trainers out there, including ex military Officers.
3. The multitude of published sessions covering literally decades.
4. The realms of declassified military stuff, which if you follow like I did can be made to work.
5. The conferences

How exactly could this, logically and rationally, be a fantasy of my own creation?


1. don't take refuge in the false security of consensus
2. being an ex military officer is hardly the high watermark of human intelligence or even rationality
3. look at the most published works covering tens of decades and then decide whether being published represents even a grain of truth
4. if anyone could get it to work then the military support networks would be using it and selling it
5. i'm off to a conference on Monday but will view the content with a degree of skepticism

For sure this is not a fantasy of your own creation...but you are possibly blinded by your desire for it to be successful...
indeed, but equally you could be blinded precisely where I was a decade ago when I first heard about it and thought it nonsense. It is after all quite a mind shift. That said the results speak for themselves, though I give you how you interpret results is a consideration, which is why I like perception by perception scoring and databasing.


the results do indeed speak for themselves...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15767
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:

4. if anyone could get it to work then the military support networks would be using it and selling it
.
I am sure some are, for even I have got it to work. Getting it to work reliably and usefully are the issues, hence my last years work on usefulness.

GCHQ could easily try my, to quote Cobbie "chain of logic" at virtually no cost, assuming that they can find a single viewer who can feel salt and the other things I mentioned. (The various components of a water column) I hope that they do. If they can find such a viewer they could prove it in an afternoon.

Ejc you would be amazed, or perhaps not, at how much of a pain in the ass I am in the viewing community, to get them to be sceptical and use maths.


Just don't forget to get Mr Coutts to give me my half trillion pounds.


i have no doubts of that...

but your early practices are a bit like those doing the three cup shuffle before laying bets...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15767
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
You do know that you're living in a fantasy world of your own creation, right?

.


i thought that you were catholic?
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:


but your early practices are a bit like those doing the three cup shuffle before laying bets...
Ejc, what was your first run like? Did you not have to learn to walk first. And to crawl before that? And just to stand up unsupported before that? Of course my early practices were rubbish, one of my first was the famous missing us military flight over the Bermuda Triangle, all I got was something over water. Which incidentally was correct.

Remember Ejc:-
1. I am trying to make stuff work that people say isn't possible, and all I have to go on is (1) what is in the public domain and (2) my own understanding of esoterics. Intuition or guts if you like.

2. To be able to do this is pretty fine grained work, little different to someone moving from repeating the phrase "know yourself" to really knowing themselves. It takes enormous amounts of energy to refine your stone (masons here can think of the smoothing the ashlar, a piece of stone or yourself).

3. Fortunately having spent a good year reflecting on how to make it useful so that I can earn a living again more easily, I have come up with methods, like finding submarines (thank you again The Economist for the idea) that are straightforward enough to work.

4. Clearly though I can't train myself to find subs as that would be stupid and unverifiable as there is no way that I could get feedback, and hence couldn't learn and improve further.

5. But I can easily show our military how to gather the resources to do it, I mean you don't even need to have that advanced viewers, just people who can manage stage 2 of the 6 declassified stages.

6. Now that I have made progress on "usefulness" I need to fathom out how to make a living, and in due course once I have worked through the ICAEW training manuals again (6-9 months) start to practice crv again myself to find ways to work on "reliability".

7. I saw little point in working on reliability too much without knowing that it could be practically useful! Especially since I do need to redevelop a career, at my young age.

8. Ejc, just find a viewer who can get good stage 2 data (in principle that was one of my key strengths when I did it) who can feel the elements of a water column well (I never trained nor tried that).

9. Obviously I would love to give it a go myself but not having done it for so long, and with so many changes in my life (e.g. Stopping drinking, emotional upset from issues surrounding my mums death) I would assume that I would be starting all over again (a bit like a marathon runner who hasn't run at all for a year and a half) and so would be relying on beginners luck (admittedly with past experience) and expecting to fall into the depths of darkness as all viewers go through to start with (which is also noted with data thereon in the declassified documents). Hence I would be better placed to set such a target up (without needing to know much about it) for a viewer who is currently trained and good at e.g. tasting salt etc.

10. As you might imagine this is but one of the projects that I am working on. The others you may find even more barmy. Mind you they still have years of thought ahead to shape them into useful assets.
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TransitionTed




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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SS, I'm a simple soul, so can you explain what the absolute f@ck your on about?
Simply?
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TransitionTed wrote:
SS, I'm a simple soul, so can you explain what the absolute f@ck your on about?
Simply?
Feeling the energy that is all around us. A bit like, at its crudest level, when you walk down the street and see a really hot woman and you think ¥$€%#. Then taking this "energy" refining it enourmously and applying it to other things.
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Gus




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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Sloggers

I can't help thinking you may be 'slogging a dead horse' here. As you say, there have been decades (and actually, centuries) of humans with large-scale resources looking into this, from every possible angle. Yet, at the very best, after all this, there is some arguable 'evidence' to say there may be something in it. Nothing definite, nothing irrefutable. Just an awful lot of ambiguous results that could be argued both ways. I can't help thinking if there really was something in it, after all this time somebody, somewhere, would have discovered a significant breakthrough (along the lines of the 'infinite monkeys banging on infinite typewriters' logic).

Yes, you could use the 'learning to walk' argument - but after all this time, after all these centuries of people concentrating hard on it, we still haven't even learned to move our legs, never mind learn to crawl. We may as well be concentrating on flapping our arms to hope to fly one day.

Now this is arguable, but in all the great scientific advancements in history, breakthroughs have happened after a relatively small number of people (and I mean a very small number) who were leading experts in the field made their discovery after (in human period times) a relatively small amount of time - usually an incremental step after the last 'discovery' in the field.

But 'remote viewing' has probably been at least tried by trillions of human beings over centuries, as well as on a more formal basis with relatively large-scale resources (military).... and yet we have not seen (honestly?) one single, real breakthrough that is indisputable.

I am scientifically minded (and therefore more evidence-based in my reasoning) but remain, always, completely open minded and would love to see some truth in this. But I just can't help thinking you're going down a dead-end here. The only way I could see genuine progress is with artificial assistance/augmentation somehow enhancing the power of the brain or, perhaps some technology that allows viewing via different channels (different dimensions?) etc... but as it is, I just don't think our brains are genuinely capable of doing what you're trying to achieve....

Maybe use your mind to think more laterally, away from remote viewing and find other areas where breakthroughs could be achieved?
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TransitionTed




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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
TransitionTed wrote:
SS, I'm a simple soul, so can you explain what the absolute f@ck your on about?
Simply?
Feeling the energy that is all around us. A bit like, at its crudest level, when you walk down the street and see a really hot woman and you think ¥$€%#. Then taking this "energy" refining it enourmously and applying it to other things.


Ah women, now your talking
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
Hey Sloggers

I can't help thinking you may be 'slogging a dead horse' here. As you say, there have been decades (and actually, centuries) of humans with large-scale resources looking into this, from every possible angle. Yet, at the very best, after all this, there is some arguable 'evidence' to say there may be something in it. Nothing definite, nothing irrefutable. Just an awful lot of ambiguous results that could be argued both ways. I can't help thinking if there really was something in it, after all this time somebody, somewhere, would have discovered a significant breakthrough (along the lines of the 'infinite monkeys banging on infinite typewriters' logic).

Yes, you could use the 'learning to walk' argument - but after all this time, after all these centuries of people concentrating hard on it, we still haven't even learned to move our legs, never mind learn to crawl. We may as well be concentrating on flapping our arms to hope to fly one day.

Now this is arguable, but in all the great scientific advancements in history, breakthroughs have happened after a relatively small number of people (and I mean a very small number) who were leading experts in the field made their discovery after (in human period times) a relatively small amount of time - usually an incremental step after the last 'discovery' in the field.

But 'remote viewing' has probably been at least tried by trillions of human beings over centuries, as well as on a more formal basis with relatively large-scale resources (military).... and yet we have not seen (honestly?) one single, real breakthrough that is indisputable.

I am scientifically minded (and therefore more evidence-based in my reasoning) but remain, always, completely open minded and would love to see some truth in this. But I just can't help thinking you're going down a dead-end here. The only way I could see genuine progress is with artificial assistance/augmentation somehow enhancing the power of the brain or, perhaps some technology that allows viewing via different channels (different dimensions?) etc... but as it is, I just don't think our brains are genuinely capable of doing what you're trying to achieve....

Maybe use your mind to think more laterally, away from remote viewing and find other areas where breakthroughs could be achieved?
Gus

Thank you for taking the time to get your mind around this, it really is appreciated. You may even be right.

For me, the singular breakthrough that I has re the specifics of finding submarines was that:-

1. Remote viewing conventional wisdom is that you can't find anything in water, as it is all the same.
2. I know from my Oceonography Open University course that isn't true, each area of water is actually pretty unique due to a handful of distinct factors, including salinity, density and temperature.
3. When the Economist said that for all of our technology we still could not find submarines that easily I thought, "why not, we have big data and oceonography, we have maths geeks to fill in the gaps, and all you need is a viewer who can do the easy stuff well, specifically skilled to those water column variables.
4. To the best of my knowledge such thinking has never happened in the public remote viewing world before, why? Because water is "all the same and there is lots of it". I just happen to be very widely educated having taken courses in everything from biochemistry, through big data, terrorism, and heaps of others. My varied and unusual set of life experiences, combined with my very broad education makes such thinking easy for me.

That all said Gus you could well be right.
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Last edited by SloggingScotsman on Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wait for every remote viewer under the sun now knowing that finding submarines is possible and that they have known it for years!!

Anyone any useful and serious advice on how I could write this up as a paper before thieving scumbags pinch my idea and claim it is theirs?

You can assume that I have no knowledge or experience in writing scientific papers.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TransitionTed wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
TransitionTed wrote:
SS, I'm a simple soul, so can you explain what the absolute f@ck your on about?
Simply?
Feeling the energy that is all around us. A bit like, at its crudest level, when you walk down the street and see a really hot woman and you think ¥$€%#. Then taking this "energy" refining it enourmously and applying it to other things.


Ah women, now your talking
i have thought that if I ever had to give a presentation on this (and I possibly lack a bit of self confidence so that would be fun) a good way to start to get the scientists, spooks and politicians to really think would be to walk in the room with two women who are very comfortable in their own bodies.

1. One a stunning hot beauty who makes men/women melt.
2. Someone who was the opposite.

And simply asking the question...

How does Alice and Amy make you feel? Feel the difference?

For that is a good way to start teaching esoterics. Not so easy to find a woman who would be comfortable presenting herself as the non hot one obviously.
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