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Argon E-118
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2155
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Argon E-118 Reply with quote

Hi,

Looking for opinions on the E-118 (2014) frame kit before I buy online...

https://www.triuk.com/products/argon-18/argon-18-e-118-frameset-2014#.WIHYF7GcZBw

Seems to be quite adaptable so good for a subsequent fitting.

I'd be loading it up with Athena, which Triuk say they can install a "BB386 to Campagnolo Power Torque" to allow this but I can't get much more info on what they mean by that.

Primarily this is for long course Tri, I'll hook it into the turbo and do club time trials and solo rides on it.

It looks nice anyway.


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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 133
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My boss is after one.
I ended up with E116 as I didnt like the front end.

Great bike, paticulary good on fast descents for a TT bike.

The E118 gets great reviews. Treat yourself!
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Argon E-118 Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Hi,

Looking for opinions on the E-118 (2014) frame kit before I buy online...

https://www.triuk.com/products/argon-18/argon-18-e-118-frameset-2014#.WIHYF7GcZBw

Seems to be quite adaptable so good for a subsequent fitting.

I'd be loading it up with Athena, which Triuk say they can install a "BB386 to Campagnolo Power Torque" to allow this but I can't get much more info on what they mean by that.

Primarily this is for long course Tri, I'll hook it into the turbo and do club time trials and solo rides on it.

It looks nice anyway.



In over 30 years of cycling, TT and Tri, I've never had a bike without Campag on it. However, I wouldn't touch anything under Chorus level. With PT you will need a special tool to pull the crank.

BTW, my next TT bike will 'likely' be a 117 but not 100% sure. I'm 90% sure it will be Etap with Clics though!
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 15994
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argon are very nice and often underrated bikes. I would be cautious with the proprietary front end though, and make sure you get get a good fit on it before you take the plunge. iirc you'll need those bars to sit low, so you can get aero enough on a small frame, as you had problems with your current frame ?
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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Location: My happy place

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Argon are very nice and often underrated bikes. I would be cautious with the proprietary front end though, and make sure you get get a good fit on it before you take the plunge. iirc you'll need those bars to sit low, so you can get aero enough on a small frame, as you had problems with your current frame ?


That's why I like the 117 as the front is std and I'll be building myself anyway (as I do all my bikes). The 118 is a different story, a friend has one and he loves it but said building it (with Etap) was a big PITA.

In regards to aero, you'll be more efficient with pad risers than with stem spacers, so as Jorgan suggests, sit the base bar low and raise the pads with rest spacers if required.

Only thing I dont like about the 118 or the 112 is the horizontal drop out. I like them on my track bike, dislike them on anything else.
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Whisk




Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 8381
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FatPom wrote:
In regards to aero, you'll be more efficient with pad risers than with stem spacers, so as Jorgan suggests, sit the base bar low and raise the pads with rest spacers if required.



Better make sure that you are comfortable in the aero position for most of the ride then - if you end up as one of the many people you see in the latter stages of IM events who are riding on the base bar because their backs can't stand the position for the duration of the ride, then a low base bar is going to make life even more uncomfortable Wink
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:
FatPom wrote:
In regards to aero, you'll be more efficient with pad risers than with stem spacers, so as Jorgan suggests, sit the base bar low and raise the pads with rest spacers if required.



Better make sure that you are comfortable in the aero position for most of the ride then - if you end up as one of the many people you see in the latter stages of IM events who are riding on the base bar because their backs can't stand the position for the duration of the ride, then a low base bar is going to make life even more uncomfortable Wink


What have I written here that makes you think I wouldn't do that Confused If the base bar is too low for climbing compared to the raised pads, then you're on the wrong size bike.

Also, it's very dependant on experience. My back is worse than probably anyone on here but I've been TTing a very long time and am more comfortable with aero than a road position. Not ultra low these days but I always set a position I can hold (not sure why anybody wouldnt?)
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Whisk




Joined: 09 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FatPom wrote:
Whisk wrote:
FatPom wrote:
In regards to aero, you'll be more efficient with pad risers than with stem spacers, so as Jorgan suggests, sit the base bar low and raise the pads with rest spacers if required.



Better make sure that you are comfortable in the aero position for most of the ride then - if you end up as one of the many people you see in the latter stages of IM events who are riding on the base bar because their backs can't stand the position for the duration of the ride, then a low base bar is going to make life even more uncomfortable Wink


What have I written here that makes you think I wouldn't do that Confused If the base bar is too low for climbing compared to the raised pads, then you're on the wrong size bike.

Also, it's very dependant on experience. My back is worse than probably anyone on here but I've been TTing a very long time and am more comfortable with aero than a road position. Not ultra low these days but I always set a position I can hold (not sure why anybody wouldnt?)


Sorry, that comment wasn't aimed at you in particular. It was more at the people who are relatively new to the sport who are suckered into buying a really aggressive TT bike which they then can't hold the position on for the duration of their ride. I see so many people around here riding around on TT bikes on the base bar in situations where I would expect them to be on the tri bars and I'm sure it's because they aren't comfortable for any length of time on the tri bars. If you compound that problem by having a set-up where even the base bar is too low to get comfortable and you end up with a bike which is unusable and will probably be sold very quickly Wink
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 133
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just dont get the very low brake / shifter position, with a million mms of spacers up to the arm pads?

The Pros Tri and TT seam to be fine with it, and I get the aero bit, but I think most AG ers would certainly climb, descend, steer and for LD races generally be more comfortable, with the " old fashioned" Aero bars with shifters and brakes at roughly the same height.

I tried out the bike in question, it was gorgeous to ride but the hand position for climbing especially was set far to low. I"m sure there"s a ton of folks on here who ride like this be interested to hear how it climbs compared to there road bike?

My Argon is slightly slower, and im talking 2% ish on a steep climb than my 6.8 kg road bike, it climbs really well and is obviously alot faster on the flat.

The good thing is these front ends are better at hiding your di2 wires!
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers all, I'm doing Athena because I want swapability with my Athena roadie and can't see a significant benefit to electronic or more expensive shifting.

It comes with two stems, a 65mm and a 95mm stem.

I'll build it and have it fit later. I'm not sure what adapter they're offering to install something about press fit to threaded. I asked about thenintegrated BB but didn't get much back.
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:
FatPom wrote:
Whisk wrote:
FatPom wrote:
In regards to aero, you'll be more efficient with pad risers than with stem spacers, so as Jorgan suggests, sit the base bar low and raise the pads with rest spacers if required.



Better make sure that you are comfortable in the aero position for most of the ride then - if you end up as one of the many people you see in the latter stages of IM events who are riding on the base bar because their backs can't stand the position for the duration of the ride, then a low base bar is going to make life even more uncomfortable Wink


What have I written here that makes you think I wouldn't do that Confused If the base bar is too low for climbing compared to the raised pads, then you're on the wrong size bike.

Also, it's very dependant on experience. My back is worse than probably anyone on here but I've been TTing a very long time and am more comfortable with aero than a road position. Not ultra low these days but I always set a position I can hold (not sure why anybody wouldnt?)


Sorry, that comment wasn't aimed at you in particular. It was more at the people who are relatively new to the sport who are suckered into buying a really aggressive TT bike which they then can't hold the position on for the duration of their ride. I see so many people around here riding around on TT bikes on the base bar in situations where I would expect them to be on the tri bars and I'm sure it's because they aren't comfortable for any length of time on the tri bars. If you compound that problem by having a set-up where even the base bar is too low to get comfortable and you end up with a bike which is unusable and will probably be sold very quickly Wink


Ah gotcha, Smile Yeah I have zero ego, so I have the bars as high as I need them to hold aero and be able to climb/descend comfortably on the base bar. My old coach used to say that getting folks to hold a TT position in the turbo for even 10 mins, was a lot harder than it should have been, mainly because they didn't practice enough, or were too low.

Mungo, I don't think the intention is to have the base bar abnormally low (or at least it shouldn't be!) but what modern thinking seems to be: 'If you need to raise arm pads for the best position but that results in the base needing to come up, then it's better to 'split' them with arm pad spacers, provided you can reach the base bar ok.

Like I say, IMO, if the gap is too large then you are on the wrong sized bike. Also, I think we can get the wrong impression when we see some pro TT bikes. Their base bars tend to be low but they are pretty adept at reaching down and handling their bikes for the relatively short time they need to be in them for.

For the LC TTer or triathlete, I agree with Whisk, if the base bar is used as a bail out position then a big gap would be a nightmare (also quite wobbly at crowded aid stations!). I've seen folks riding along holding the arm pads before as well.
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Cheers all, I'm doing Athena because I want swapability with my Athena roadie and can't see a significant benefit to electronic or more expensive shifting.

It comes with two stems, a 65mm and a 95mm stem.

I'll build it and have it fit later. I'm not sure what adapter they're offering to install something about press fit to threaded. I asked about thenintegrated BB but didn't get much back.


I intend to electronic not for any speed benefit but stopping quick for junctions or traffic on a mech TT bike sucks donkey balls. I love the idea of being able to change from the base bar (but it comes at a big cost!)

Re the BB., I'm a bit confused. Campag used to have their own solution to the PF30 debacle, called 'Over Torque. Then they had some cups called BB386 OS but these disappeared also.

My road bike has a PF30 and I installed a Praxis adaptor and run std 24mm UT cranks. I can't see why your shop just can't install std Campag PF30 cups and run your PT crank? Maybe that's what they are saying but using slightly odd phrasing because as far as I'm aware, the Argon 18 has a PF 30, so would need either cups or an adaptor to work with PT.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1214

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FatPom wrote:
I love the idea of being able to change from the base bar (but it comes at a big cost!)

Completely agree, on all fronts! (which is why I'm still on mechanical!)
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14198
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Cheers all, I'm doing Athena because I want swapability with my Athena roadie and can't see a significant benefit to electronic or more expensive shifting.



I'll build it and have it fit later.


Have you had a fit already to check compatibility?
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2155
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
Cheers all, I'm doing Athena because I want swapability with my Athena roadie and can't see a significant benefit to electronic or more expensive shifting.



I'll build it and have it fit later.


Have you had a fit already to check compatibility?


No. I tried talking to my fitter and I can pay 200 for a bike fit before buying (on my existing bike). Which is interesting, but does nothing really other than tell me which frame to buy. So then I have to get it fit to me once I've built it. That's 150. To me that's being charged twice for the same thing, no disrespect to the fitter - time is money after all.
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Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
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