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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2246
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Club sponsorship Reply with quote

Hi all,

I was at my bike club AGM and they're thinking about how to spend more on members racing amongst other things - including triathlon. Partly as they are registered as an amateur sports club now.

Are there any rules about this, especially at IM events?

Or indeed any benefits?

Obviously I'm no pro, but if they wanted me to wear a custom club trisuit or contribute to my entry is that ok for amateurs?

Oddly I can't recall anyone wearing club kit in the IM events I've done, just charity kit.
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Whisk




Joined: 09 Jun 2005
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Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe everyone is assumed to be an amateur/AGer unless they have a pro licence. Pro licences are issued by national governing bodies to athletes with results to prove that they have sufficient ability. A pro licence gives you access to prize money at the big events and I think M-dot has a restriction that you can't race AG if you've raced pro in a season.

There's nothing stopping AGers getting paid by sponsors or wearing sponsors logos while racing. They just can't claim prize money if they place in the top few positions. To be honest, I doubt if there are that many sponsors (pro or AG) that give their athletes cash - I think it's mainly kit and equipment.

As for wearing club kit, loads of people do it, particularly at the overseas races where there might be a big group from the same club racing.
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2246
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:
I believe everyone is assumed to be an amateur/AGer unless they have a pro licence. Pro licences are issued by national governing bodies to athletes with results to prove that they have sufficient ability. A pro licence gives you access to prize money at the big events and I think M-dot has a restriction that you can't race AG if you've raced pro in a season.

There's nothing stopping AGers getting paid by sponsors or wearing sponsors logos while racing. They just can't claim prize money if they place in the top few positions. To be honest, I doubt if there are that many sponsors (pro or AG) that give their athletes cash - I think it's mainly kit and equipment.

As for wearing club kit, loads of people do it, particularly at the overseas races where there might be a big group from the same club racing.


Cheers, yes it's probably kit, entry, travel type stuff and we aren't talking a lot.

I also wondered if organisations can buy entry to races at a discount, or effective discount through tax efficiency.
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Iron '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39!, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14668
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Whisk wrote:
I believe everyone is assumed to be an amateur/AGer unless they have a pro licence. Pro licences are issued by national governing bodies to athletes with results to prove that they have sufficient ability. A pro licence gives you access to prize money at the big events and I think M-dot has a restriction that you can't race AG if you've raced pro in a season.

There's nothing stopping AGers getting paid by sponsors or wearing sponsors logos while racing. They just can't claim prize money if they place in the top few positions. To be honest, I doubt if there are that many sponsors (pro or AG) that give their athletes cash - I think it's mainly kit and equipment.

As for wearing club kit, loads of people do it, particularly at the overseas races where there might be a big group from the same club racing.


Cheers, yes it's probably kit, entry, travel type stuff and we aren't talking a lot.

I also wondered if organisations can buy entry to races at a discount, or effective discount through tax efficiency.


race organisers tend to discount group entries for clubs...or do deals for services...if you are advertising a service then an entry fee could be a legitimate expense...
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2246
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
Whisk wrote:
I believe everyone is assumed to be an amateur/AGer unless they have a pro licence. Pro licences are issued by national governing bodies to athletes with results to prove that they have sufficient ability. A pro licence gives you access to prize money at the big events and I think M-dot has a restriction that you can't race AG if you've raced pro in a season.

There's nothing stopping AGers getting paid by sponsors or wearing sponsors logos while racing. They just can't claim prize money if they place in the top few positions. To be honest, I doubt if there are that many sponsors (pro or AG) that give their athletes cash - I think it's mainly kit and equipment.

As for wearing club kit, loads of people do it, particularly at the overseas races where there might be a big group from the same club racing.


Cheers, yes it's probably kit, entry, travel type stuff and we aren't talking a lot.

I also wondered if organisations can buy entry to races at a discount, or effective discount through tax efficiency.


race organisers tend to discount group entries for clubs...or do deals for services...if you are advertising a service then an entry fee could be a legitimate expense...


Interesting - looks like three or four of us are doing IM70.3 Staffs this year, although it's too late to get a group entry as most have paid already.

I could advertise my business I suppose but I can see the bean counters making it painful.
_________________
Iron '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39!, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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Whisk




Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 8436
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
Whisk wrote:
I believe everyone is assumed to be an amateur/AGer unless they have a pro licence. Pro licences are issued by national governing bodies to athletes with results to prove that they have sufficient ability. A pro licence gives you access to prize money at the big events and I think M-dot has a restriction that you can't race AG if you've raced pro in a season.

There's nothing stopping AGers getting paid by sponsors or wearing sponsors logos while racing. They just can't claim prize money if they place in the top few positions. To be honest, I doubt if there are that many sponsors (pro or AG) that give their athletes cash - I think it's mainly kit and equipment.

As for wearing club kit, loads of people do it, particularly at the overseas races where there might be a big group from the same club racing.


Cheers, yes it's probably kit, entry, travel type stuff and we aren't talking a lot.

I also wondered if organisations can buy entry to races at a discount, or effective discount through tax efficiency.


race organisers tend to discount group entries for clubs...or do deals for services...if you are advertising a service then an entry fee could be a legitimate expense...


Interesting - looks like three or four of us are doing IM70.3 Staffs this year, although it's too late to get a group entry as most have paid already.

I could advertise my business I suppose but I can see the bean counters making it painful.


So you work for or own the sponsoring company? Are you not running the risk that the entry fee and any other assistance are seen as a taxable benefit for you, unless the company can claim that there is some marketing or team building benefit for them?
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 16323
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still kind of confused at your original post. Is the club looking to find money via sponsorship (to then spend); or are there businesses looking to sponsor the club...or none of the above?

If you want to make the sport cheaper, just choose alternatives to WTC races Wink
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fenix




Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 1164

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've never seen a club outfit at any Ironman ? There's loads of them. I can't see any issue in racing in club kit. Its not like you'll magically turn pro.
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question is about my bike club sponsoring me in some way and if it's a problem for IM race rules - I think that's been answered, it isn't a problem.

eJC mentioned advertising a service, I responded to that as I own my business. I don't think I'll pursue that.

fenix wrote:
You've never seen a club outfit at any Ironman ? There's loads of them. I can't see any issue in racing in club kit. Its not like you'll magically turn pro.
I just can't recall it.
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Iron '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39!, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14668
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:


eJC mentioned advertising a service, I responded to that as I own my business. I don't think I'll pursue that.

.


my business sponsors me...in fact, the directors voted it unanimously....

Tin Pot wrote:


fenix wrote:
You've never seen a club outfit at any Ironman ? There's loads of them. I can't see any issue in racing in club kit. Its not like you'll magically turn pro.
I just can't recall it.


blimey...i don't think i've ever raced in an event where there were not club colours of some description....
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hectorsaurus




Joined: 10 Dec 2009
Posts: 533
Location: Windsor

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:
To be honest, I doubt if there are that many sponsors (pro or AG) that give their athletes cash - I think it's mainly kit and equipment


I hope no pro is accepting any key sponsorship without financial investment too. Devalues the whole thing if so.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hectorsaurus wrote:
Whisk wrote:
To be honest, I doubt if there are that many sponsors (pro or AG) that give their athletes cash - I think it's mainly kit and equipment


I hope no pro is accepting any key sponsorship without financial investment too. Devalues the whole thing if so.


There are so many AGers out there with 'sponsor' logos on their kit, regardless of their ability or whether they've actually received anything more than a % discount. If anything, that 'devalues' the the idea of it, although win-win for the sponsor.

I prefer not to get sucked into this kind of thing.
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