Tri Talk HomepageTri Talk EventsTri Talk ForumsBlogsTri Talk TrainingTri TradeTriPlayerWikiTeam Tri Talk
Team Blue Sky Thinking
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14810
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject: Team Blue Sky Thinking Reply with quote

...do you think that they all sound around the boardroom table...or the back of the bus....and thought how they could go about making their legacy as murky as possible???
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2018 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 2543
Location: Eating a Yorkie

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I more and more doubt you can win without cheating. Sky, Mo, etc.

The discussion at the table has been more about how far you can push it and/or how not to get caught.
_________________
Where the mind goes the body follows.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 16414
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:

The discussion at the table has been more about how far you can push it and/or how not to get caught.


This was the vibe I always got when they spoke to Brailsford, even in the early days. Basically they will push the limits of the rules to breaking point, and exploit any loophole or substance that's not explicitly banned. But then there's technically nothing wrong with that....unless you don't really need all that Asthma medication.

Shady best describes it.
_________________
25 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14810
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Chrace wrote:

The discussion at the table has been more about how far you can push it and/or how not to get caught.


This was the vibe I always got when they spoke to Brailsford, even in the early days. Basically they will push the limits of the rules to breaking point, and exploit any loophole or substance that's not explicitly banned. But then there's technically nothing wrong with that....unless you don't really need all that Asthma medication.

Shady best describes it.


but if you are not smart enough to keep an audit trail, then you deserve whatever gets thrown at you...
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2018 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16333
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Chrace wrote:

The discussion at the table has been more about how far you can push it and/or how not to get caught.


This was the vibe I always got when they spoke to Brailsford, even in the early days. Basically they will push the limits of the rules to breaking point, and exploit any loophole or substance that's not explicitly banned. But then there's technically nothing wrong with that....unless you don't really need all that Asthma medication.

Shady best describes it.


I wa shocked a couple weeks ago when I did my lung function test . 4 puffs on an inhaler and 30 minutes later I had a 12% improvement in lung function! Now far be it for me to question the needs of cyclists but if thats as good as putting 12% more oxygen into my system, that's quite some improvement. Im interested in testing this in the real world now to see if thats a 12% performance increase as well or just "levelling the playing field" .

As for the athletes needing it, there are a lot of swimmers that develop it as well. Genuine? its been proven that pushing your body in the way they do and their environment can bring on asthma like issues or respiratory problems so maybe there are a disproportionate number of athletes with genuine needs. For the record Salbutamol is perfectly legal in puffer form provided you have less than 1600micrograms per day or 8 puffs IIRC and 800 in a 12 hr periods.
_________________
Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 16414
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but we're talking about intramuscular injections now, not just a few puffs. Oh, and why would you need to 'courier' a package of decongestant to another country. They are widely available, they have pharmacies on the Continent.

This is reminiscent of the LA saga, as they slowly chipped away.
_________________
25 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16333
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Yeah, but we're talking about intramuscular injections now, not just a few puffs. Oh, and why would you need to 'courier' a package of decongestant to another country. They are widely available, they have pharmacies on the Continent.

This is reminiscent of the LA saga, as they slowly chipped away.


dont dispute the questions being asked as Sky are far from open and there are a lot of questions needing answering. In some ways I dont blame them, confidentiality of medical records etc BUT they are so far in the shit now its damage limitation time and they must open up.

As for the injections, on one hand i can see why. Athlete A had a torrid 2010 apparently because of some major allergies being triggered. Nothing you can do once they've hit though so in 2011 rather than waste another years work they do what any good sports team would, they prepare prior to the event to make sure it cant reoccur. It was all signed off by the independent doctors etc so I have no problem there. They would have had to prove it was the only option. Unlike in previous eras its not a case of the team doctor saying take this and just signing it off with a few quid to the UCI.

As for the courier, again questions , lots of questions but face value after what happened to Alain Baxter would you as a team principle take the risk of an over the counter option in a foreign country (today we have the GlobalDRO so its not such an issue as long as you in in a supported country)

then there is the BUT. If I can "answer questions" as easy as this, then why isnt the millionaire team principle who's taken the countries lottery funding for years able to just pre prepare a decent statement and supply the information. The fact hes not so prepared though also points to the fact nothing dodgy has gone on but they cant really explain making it look suspicious. If they was dodgy they'd have spent weeks covering their backsides getting stories straight and paying people off like LA! Im torn though I would still like to believe they push boundaries without stepping over them.
_________________
Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14810
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Yeah, but we're talking about intramuscular injections now, not just a few puffs. Oh, and why would you need to 'courier' a package of decongestant to another country. They are widely available, they have pharmacies on the Continent.

This is reminiscent of the LA saga, as they slowly chipped away.


dont dispute the questions being asked as Sky are far from open and there are a lot of questions needing answering. In some ways I dont blame them, confidentiality of medical records etc BUT they are so far in the shit now its damage limitation time and they must open up.

As for the injections, on one hand i can see why. Athlete A had a torrid 2010 apparently because of some major allergies being triggered. Nothing you can do once they've hit though so in 2011 rather than waste another years work they do what any good sports team would, they prepare prior to the event to make sure it cant reoccur. It was all signed off by the independent doctors etc so I have no problem there. They would have had to prove it was the only option. Unlike in previous eras its not a case of the team doctor saying take this and just signing it off with a few quid to the UCI.

As for the courier, again questions , lots of questions but face value after what happened to Alain Baxter would you as a team principle take the risk of an over the counter option in a foreign country (today we have the GlobalDRO so its not such an issue as long as you in in a supported country)

then there is the BUT. If I can "answer questions" as easy as this, then why isnt the millionaire team principle who's taken the countries lottery funding for years able to just pre prepare a decent statement and supply the information. The fact hes not so prepared though also points to the fact nothing dodgy has gone on but they cant really explain making it look suspicious. If they was dodgy they'd have spent weeks covering their backsides getting stories straight and paying people off like LA! Im torn though I would still like to believe they push boundaries without stepping over them.


The medical records were so confidential it seems that they failed to keep any.

Using a BC coach to courier a product is misuse of public funding.

I am out of date on my knowledge of logistics, however carrying unknown goods across international boundaries used to be illegal...am happy to be corrected here if this is no longer he case

i think that they are unprepared simply because they didn't expect this to all come out and it is better to be called incompetent than have it nailed on that you are a cheat, I suppose.

What disappoints me most is that we paid for them on the way up, and now we are paying for them on the way back down..
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2018 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16333
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
hammerer wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Yeah, but we're talking about intramuscular injections now, not just a few puffs. Oh, and why would you need to 'courier' a package of decongestant to another country. They are widely available, they have pharmacies on the Continent.

This is reminiscent of the LA saga, as they slowly chipped away.


dont dispute the questions being asked as Sky are far from open and there are a lot of questions needing answering. In some ways I dont blame them, confidentiality of medical records etc BUT they are so far in the shit now its damage limitation time and they must open up.

As for the injections, on one hand i can see why. Athlete A had a torrid 2010 apparently because of some major allergies being triggered. Nothing you can do once they've hit though so in 2011 rather than waste another years work they do what any good sports team would, they prepare prior to the event to make sure it cant reoccur. It was all signed off by the independent doctors etc so I have no problem there. They would have had to prove it was the only option. Unlike in previous eras its not a case of the team doctor saying take this and just signing it off with a few quid to the UCI.

As for the courier, again questions , lots of questions but face value after what happened to Alain Baxter would you as a team principle take the risk of an over the counter option in a foreign country (today we have the GlobalDRO so its not such an issue as long as you in in a supported country)

then there is the BUT. If I can "answer questions" as easy as this, then why isnt the millionaire team principle who's taken the countries lottery funding for years able to just pre prepare a decent statement and supply the information. The fact hes not so prepared though also points to the fact nothing dodgy has gone on but they cant really explain making it look suspicious. If they was dodgy they'd have spent weeks covering their backsides getting stories straight and paying people off like LA! Im torn though I would still like to believe they push boundaries without stepping over them.


The medical records were so confidential it seems that they failed to keep any.

Using a BC coach to courier a product is misuse of public funding.

I am out of date on my knowledge of logistics, however carrying unknown goods across international boundaries used to be illegal...am happy to be corrected here if this is no longer he case

i think that they are unprepared simply because they didn't expect this to all come out and it is better to be called incompetent than have it nailed on that you are a cheat, I suppose.

What disappoints me most is that we paid for them on the way up, and now we are paying for them on the way back down..


that last statement is the real one. How much money have BC had and still receive.

Unrelated but the latest thing to really piss me off is something Ive just read in Nicole Cookes book. She travelled to the worlds just after her 2008 Olympic win. BC didn't even have skinsuits for the ladies. It was baggy jerseys that were an after thought so she basically got her own skinsuit and cut up the jersey and sewed the sponsor logos on. She also rode with a dodgy headset as no one had brought spares or could fix it. Again lottery funded .... but only if you were a male trackie, yet our female road cyclists were ruling the world.
_________________
Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14810
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
hammerer wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Yeah, but we're talking about intramuscular injections now, not just a few puffs. Oh, and why would you need to 'courier' a package of decongestant to another country. They are widely available, they have pharmacies on the Continent.

This is reminiscent of the LA saga, as they slowly chipped away.


dont dispute the questions being asked as Sky are far from open and there are a lot of questions needing answering. In some ways I dont blame them, confidentiality of medical records etc BUT they are so far in the shit now its damage limitation time and they must open up.

As for the injections, on one hand i can see why. Athlete A had a torrid 2010 apparently because of some major allergies being triggered. Nothing you can do once they've hit though so in 2011 rather than waste another years work they do what any good sports team would, they prepare prior to the event to make sure it cant reoccur. It was all signed off by the independent doctors etc so I have no problem there. They would have had to prove it was the only option. Unlike in previous eras its not a case of the team doctor saying take this and just signing it off with a few quid to the UCI.

As for the courier, again questions , lots of questions but face value after what happened to Alain Baxter would you as a team principle take the risk of an over the counter option in a foreign country (today we have the GlobalDRO so its not such an issue as long as you in in a supported country)

then there is the BUT. If I can "answer questions" as easy as this, then why isnt the millionaire team principle who's taken the countries lottery funding for years able to just pre prepare a decent statement and supply the information. The fact hes not so prepared though also points to the fact nothing dodgy has gone on but they cant really explain making it look suspicious. If they was dodgy they'd have spent weeks covering their backsides getting stories straight and paying people off like LA! Im torn though I would still like to believe they push boundaries without stepping over them.


The medical records were so confidential it seems that they failed to keep any.

Using a BC coach to courier a product is misuse of public funding.

I am out of date on my knowledge of logistics, however carrying unknown goods across international boundaries used to be illegal...am happy to be corrected here if this is no longer he case

i think that they are unprepared simply because they didn't expect this to all come out and it is better to be called incompetent than have it nailed on that you are a cheat, I suppose.

What disappoints me most is that we paid for them on the way up, and now we are paying for them on the way back down..


that last statement is the real one. How much money have BC had and still receive.

Unrelated but the latest thing to really piss me off is something Ive just read in Nicole Cookes book. She travelled to the worlds just after her 2008 Olympic win. BC didn't even have skinsuits for the ladies. It was baggy jerseys that were an after thought so she basically got her own skinsuit and cut up the jersey and sewed the sponsor logos on. She also rode with a dodgy headset as no one had brought spares or could fix it. Again lottery funded .... but only if you were a male trackie, yet our female road cyclists were ruling the world.


In conversation with an elite world champion....the only support received one year was a race suit....
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2018 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16333
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
hammerer wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
hammerer wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Yeah, but we're talking about intramuscular injections now, not just a few puffs. Oh, and why would you need to 'courier' a package of decongestant to another country. They are widely available, they have pharmacies on the Continent.

This is reminiscent of the LA saga, as they slowly chipped away.


dont dispute the questions being asked as Sky are far from open and there are a lot of questions needing answering. In some ways I dont blame them, confidentiality of medical records etc BUT they are so far in the shit now its damage limitation time and they must open up.

As for the injections, on one hand i can see why. Athlete A had a torrid 2010 apparently because of some major allergies being triggered. Nothing you can do once they've hit though so in 2011 rather than waste another years work they do what any good sports team would, they prepare prior to the event to make sure it cant reoccur. It was all signed off by the independent doctors etc so I have no problem there. They would have had to prove it was the only option. Unlike in previous eras its not a case of the team doctor saying take this and just signing it off with a few quid to the UCI.

As for the courier, again questions , lots of questions but face value after what happened to Alain Baxter would you as a team principle take the risk of an over the counter option in a foreign country (today we have the GlobalDRO so its not such an issue as long as you in in a supported country)

then there is the BUT. If I can "answer questions" as easy as this, then why isnt the millionaire team principle who's taken the countries lottery funding for years able to just pre prepare a decent statement and supply the information. The fact hes not so prepared though also points to the fact nothing dodgy has gone on but they cant really explain making it look suspicious. If they was dodgy they'd have spent weeks covering their backsides getting stories straight and paying people off like LA! Im torn though I would still like to believe they push boundaries without stepping over them.


The medical records were so confidential it seems that they failed to keep any.

Using a BC coach to courier a product is misuse of public funding.

I am out of date on my knowledge of logistics, however carrying unknown goods across international boundaries used to be illegal...am happy to be corrected here if this is no longer he case

i think that they are unprepared simply because they didn't expect this to all come out and it is better to be called incompetent than have it nailed on that you are a cheat, I suppose.

What disappoints me most is that we paid for them on the way up, and now we are paying for them on the way back down..


that last statement is the real one. How much money have BC had and still receive.

Unrelated but the latest thing to really piss me off is something Ive just read in Nicole Cookes book. She travelled to the worlds just after her 2008 Olympic win. BC didn't even have skinsuits for the ladies. It was baggy jerseys that were an after thought so she basically got her own skinsuit and cut up the jersey and sewed the sponsor logos on. She also rode with a dodgy headset as no one had brought spares or could fix it. Again lottery funded .... but only if you were a male trackie, yet our female road cyclists were ruling the world.


In conversation with an elite world champion....the only support received one year was a race suit....


and they bang on about marginal gains! just like the screw up which led to the Jess Varnish fall out in which they failed to QF for the team sprint last year as no one bothered to check the teams qualification points during the world cup. Didn't happen with the mens track team!
_________________
Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
user134098




Joined: 29 Nov 2004
Posts: 10735

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Significantly in this case, Fluimicil is unlicenced for prescription here, but is available for prescription in France.
- how did they get it here, and why would the trust the source?
- why did not they not get it in France, and why would they not trust the source there?
- why do they have no record of having it?
- why did the guy carrying it say he'd packed everything himself when checking-in?

Maybe it's all a simple mistake, he's a knight of the realm after all Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FoulOleRon




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 6621

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is all going a bit slowtwitch
_________________
Find a happy place, find a happy place
http://mikemccrumpet.wordpress.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
hermannlovespauline




Joined: 30 Jun 2015
Posts: 163

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
As for the athletes needing it, there are a lot of swimmers that develop it as well. Genuine?

it's all that peeing in the pool

Quote:
compounds in urine, including urea, ammonia, and creatinine have been found to react with disinfectants to form byproducts known as DBPs that can lead to eye and respiratory irritation. Long-term exposure to the compounds has been linked to asthma in professional swimmers and pool worker

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/mar/01/how-much-pee-is-in-our-swimming-pools-new-urine-test-reveals-the-truth
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14810
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FoulOleRon wrote:
This is all going a bit slowtwitch


Slow twitch are currently reviewing race photographs to see if team GB sky cut the course and looking at historic results to see if this is a one off...
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2018 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> General All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 1 of 9
  Share
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Home | About TT | Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions | Advertising | Contact TT
Copyright ©2003-2015 TriTalk®.co.uk. All rights reserved.