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The Sub 11 Ironman Thread
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Muriel




Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 413
Location: Eeeeeeeeeesher

PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Krispy wrote:
A mate has recommended BestBikeSplit and this is something I'll have a play with this year.


Don't do the math, do the training Very Happy

Hmm, Vichy could be a tough day if it's hot. The only time I went over 11h was when it was 40 degrees. Brutal.


With regards to Vichy (2016), the last time I experienced temps like that was in Uluru. I'm a god awful swimmer and even I was glad to be non wetsuit.

Saying that the organisers were more than well prepared for it.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was blown off my bike yesterday! Only 20 min into my ride, I got hit by a side gust on an exposed part of the A46; because it was a busier section I was riding close to the verge, and had no margin for error. Went onto the grass & ar5e-over-tit Surprised Luckily only my back tire hit the dry-stone wall. First thing I did was check to see if anyone saw it, then leapt up and proceeded to check my bike & then myself Rolling Eyes Very Happy I carried on, but some sketchy bits where I had to grab the base bars to steady myself (first TT bike ride outside this year).

Anyway. Managed another 'zero calorie' ride, 95 km on 300ml of water averaging just over 31kph, and still strong at the end. This is the first year I have tried doing longer rides on no carbs/energy, but going a bit easier. I'm going to continue in that vane for a while longer I think, and see how it plays out. I would like to be in a situation where I don't need to rely on cramming quite so much nutrition in on the bike, especially gels. I'd like to just use solid energy bars and sports drink for Outlaw.
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TRO Saracen




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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madness taking the TT out yesterday! I stayed firmly indoors with 3 hours on the watt bike.

Bashed myself with an hour Z2 and 3 x30 sweetspot.

Crucial early season 10 mile TT coming up Saturday; it will double as an FTP test so I will see where I am....
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My week went well but kind of ended in disaster.

still got my biggest week in, and still a good six months to go.

Cycling was all turbo work and went very well, Mid-week run was supposed to be light but turned into a hard hill rep set. Swim was ok but I was feeling pretty fatigued in general as I was approaching the half way point of the TR HIM Build plan.

So rest week coming up.

The disaster came yesterday when I did Wilmslow half marathon.

I wasn't 100% sure where my running fitness was, some runs have been great some terrible, but I can normally pull out a Decent (1:35-39) Half from very little training. So went with that attitude and tried to hold 7:00mm for as long as I could to see what happened.

I got a bit Eager at the start and 6:30mm ensued for the first 2 miles this fell off very sharply and by the half way point I couldn't even hold 8:00mm and shortly after I was forced to run/walk just to finish in a PW of 1:49

Today I can hardly walk, but that's fairly normal for me after a hard HM

Not sure the issue, just pure lack of fitness, the over enthusiastic start, just build up of fatigue ? possible a toxic combination of all three.

Either way It's clear I've got some tough miles out in the hills to do. which has been lacking. Normally I'm out doing regular 12+mile fell runs, where as I have been slacking really making excuses and taking the easier options. But from now on I'll get out there and get tough.

Still a long way to wales though...
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1:37:04 yesterday at Wilmslow for me.
2 min negative split after an easy/steady first half then pushed on after 8 miles and ran sub 7min miles all the way back. Downhill out and uphill back too so very pleased off the back of no long runs.
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JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 127
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Jorgan"]I was blown off my bike yesterday! Only 20 min into my ride, I got hit by a side gust on an exposed part of the A46; because it was a busier section I was riding close to the verge, and had no margin for error. Went onto the grass & ar5e-over-tit Surprised Luckily only my back tire hit the dry-stone wall. First thing I did was check to see if anyone saw it, then leapt up and proceeded to check my bike & then myself Rolling Eyes Very Happy I carried on, but some sketchy bits where I had to grab the base bars to steady myself (first TT bike ride outside this year).

I had a couple of focussing moments whilst out yesterday morning on the road bike but as well as being harder to kidnap, I guess fat blokes are also harder to blow around so nothing untoward.
Hope there was no damage to your or bike.
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 122
Location: salisbury

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First Triathlon of the year, Mad March Sprint Triathlon in Wimborne, 4th overall, fastest overall on bike leg using my TT bike, 35.7kph (22.2mph) on a really windy course. Took more than 14 mins off my time last year.

Need to practice my pacing, I could have pushed much harder at the start of the run at the end, I had lots left in my legs

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SidSnot




Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 1440

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGreg wrote:
My week went well but kind of ended in disaster.

still got my biggest week in, and still a good six months to go.

Cycling was all turbo work and went very well, Mid-week run was supposed to be light but turned into a hard hill rep set. Swim was ok but I was feeling pretty fatigued in general as I was approaching the half way point of the TR HIM Build plan.

So rest week coming up.

The disaster came yesterday when I did Wilmslow half marathon.

I wasn't 100% sure where my running fitness was, some runs have been great some terrible, but I can normally pull out a Decent (1:35-39) Half from very little training. So went with that attitude and tried to hold 7:00mm for as long as I could to see what happened.

I got a bit Eager at the start and 6:30mm ensued for the first 2 miles this fell off very sharply and by the half way point I couldn't even hold 8:00mm and shortly after I was forced to run/walk just to finish in a PW of 1:49

Today I can hardly walk, but that's fairly normal for me after a hard HM

Not sure the issue, just pure lack of fitness, the over enthusiastic start, just build up of fatigue ? possible a toxic combination of all three.

Either way It's clear I've got some tough miles out in the hills to do. which has been lacking. Normally I'm out doing regular 12+mile fell runs, where as I have been slacking really making excuses and taking the easier options. But from now on I'll get out there and get tough.

Still a long way to wales though...

I think your issue was a combination of all of the below:-
1. "biggest week"
2. "Mid-week run was supposed to be light but turned into a hard hill rep" set Why? If its down as light on the plan, its light
3. "6:30mm ensued for the first 2 miles "
4. "I have been slacking really making excuses and taking the easier options"
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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Location: High Peak

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, When compressed like that it seems bad Laughing

To be clear I intentionally took the decision that this would not be a prepared for race, more a test of fitness. I knew a PB was never on the cards so had no intention of tapering etc.. It was planned as my biggest week and as such was.

This week is my recovery week and its perfectly timed and much needed. Just a shame the HM was so catastrophic. In all honesty I rarely have trouble at this distance, and can normally muddle through.

To be clear the " slacking really making excuses and taking the easier options" comment only relates to my Sunday long run. And the easy, slacking options have been 7-10 (55-70mins) miles of road runs (so actually more suited to HM running) as opposed to the 12+ (2hrs) in the hills I normally do. which is over and above the scheduled plan runs.

My Bike/swim/midweek has all been on the button

The mid week run was a bit of an accident. It was meant to be light, but not easy. hence the hill runs, as they get the heart rate flowing but are not muscularly damaging. But the Soft grassy shortcut I use to run back down was a little TOO soft. and the run down the hill seemed to be a little more damaging than usual. I actually cut it short as I was feeling it a little too much.


Of course a HM at the end of a tough training "cycle" is never going to go "well" But FFS I'm training for a IM it really shouldn't be an issue. Its clear to me there is something lacking in my current run fitness that will now be addressed.

FWIW running the first couple of miles faster than I plan is fairly normal for me and not usually the cause of any undue issues. It never felt hard at that point just a bit unsustainable. I normally just settle into a pace and carry on, but yesterday I fell apart instead.


Last edited by SGreg on Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1475
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
First Triathlon of the year, Mad March Sprint Triathlon in Wimborne, 4th overall, fastest overall on bike leg using my TT bike, 35.7kph (22.2mph) on a really windy course. Took more than 14 mins off my time last year.

Need to practice my pacing, I could have pushed much harder at the start of the run at the end, I had lots left in my legs



14 minutes faster over a sprint! Chapeau. Smile
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezy wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
First Triathlon of the year, Mad March Sprint Triathlon in Wimborne, 4th overall, fastest overall on bike leg using my TT bike, 35.7kph (22.2mph) on a really windy course. Took more than 14 mins off my time last year.

Need to practice my pacing, I could have pushed much harder at the start of the run at the end, I had lots left in my legs



14 minutes faster over a sprint! Chapeau. Smile


Thanks - I was pleased, it is good to get year on year comparison.

I think that the pictures explain it:
weight down 10kg = 12%
overall time down 14mins = 21%

much of the improvement is due to weight loss, however, some good fitness improvement too
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 915
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
First Triathlon of the year, Mad March Sprint Triathlon in Wimborne, 4th overall, fastest overall on bike leg using my TT bike, 35.7kph (22.2mph) on a really windy course. Took more than 14 mins off my time last year.

Need to practice my pacing, I could have pushed much harder at the start of the run at the end, I had lots left in my legs



14 minutes faster over a sprint! Chapeau. Smile


Thanks - I was pleased, it is good to get year on year comparison.

I think that the pictures explain it:
weight down 10kg = 12%
overall time down 14mins = 21%

much of the improvement is due to weight loss, however, some good fitness improvement too


That's an impressive weight loss, I know you have a wetsuit on in the first pic but it is pretty noticeable and I'm sure it would help on the run quite a lot.

Do you think your bike power has stayed roughly the same? i.e. lost fat rather than muscle?

Jeff
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 915
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I was blown off my bike yesterday! Only 20 min into my ride, I got hit by a side gust on an exposed part of the A46; because it was a busier section I was riding close to the verge, and had no margin for error. Went onto the grass & ar5e-over-tit Surprised Luckily only my back tire hit the dry-stone wall. First thing I did was check to see if anyone saw it, then leapt up and proceeded to check my bike & then myself Rolling Eyes Very Happy I carried on, but some sketchy bits where I had to grab the base bars to steady myself (first TT bike ride outside this year).

Anyway. Managed another 'zero calorie' ride, 95 km on 300ml of water averaging just over 31kph, and still strong at the end. This is the first year I have tried doing longer rides on no carbs/energy, but going a bit easier. I'm going to continue in that vane for a while longer I think, and see how it plays out. I would like to be in a situation where I don't need to rely on cramming quite so much nutrition in on the bike, especially gels. I'd like to just use solid energy bars and sports drink for Outlaw.


Hope it wasn't too painful, I went out for an hour at dinnertime with 404's on and it was a bit twitchy at times.

I know the reasons behind fasted runs\rides, and have tried a few runs myself in the last few months, but don't really train early enough to make it worthwhile. 95k at 31kph is pretty impressive going early in the season on a windy day even if it was your TT bike with only 330ml of water.

But, do you not think part of the long ride is about getting your body trained to consume the fuel, and does it take you longer to recover after as you've got fairly depleted?

At the back end of last year I got some of that Vitargo in the hope it would cause less GI distress, which I think it did. Also tried a few sachets of UCAN on a couple of long runs recently (painful on the pocket though), managed ~2:30/31k with just a bottle of water on one occasion, and on the 2nd just had a bottle of water and mars bar after about 90 minutes. Obviously not very scientific either way but I'm probably going to give them another try when I do some longer bikes in a few months.

Jeff
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeffB wrote:

I know the reasons behind fasted runs\rides, and have tried a few runs myself in the last few months, but don't really train early enough to make it worthwhile. 95k at 31kph is pretty impressive going early in the season on a windy day even if it was your TT bike with only 330ml of water.

But, do you not think part of the long ride is about getting your body trained to consume the fuel, and does it take you longer to recover after as you've got fairly depleted?


It's certainly a long-term project. Even after all this time, I still don't claim to fully know my body over the Iron distance; I don't even do them annually (only 6 in total), so it's hard to get any consistency in 'response' to racing. It took Mark Allen donkeys years, even at his level.

I think that in hotter events I generally tend to drink too much on the bike i.e. overcompensate. What I also want to do, is get to a state where I can consume less on the bike, and what I do consume is slower-acting and absorbed i.e. energy bars or bananas, not gels...becoming more efficient and tapping a little more into fat sources. It's noteworthy that I don't stumble through the door & raid the cupboards when I get back from a zero-calorie ride; almost the opposite. I'm also able to do a 80 min run the next day without issue. So something is working.

They do say that if you do the same thing every time, expect the same results. This is me trying something different.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
JeffB wrote:

I know the reasons behind fasted runs\rides, and have tried a few runs myself in the last few months, but don't really train early enough to make it worthwhile. 95k at 31kph is pretty impressive going early in the season on a windy day even if it was your TT bike with only 330ml of water.

But, do you not think part of the long ride is about getting your body trained to consume the fuel, and does it take you longer to recover after as you've got fairly depleted?


It's certainly a long-term project. Even after all this time, I still don't claim to fully know my body over the Iron distance; I don't even do them annually (only 6 in total), so it's hard to get any consistency in 'response' to racing. It took Mark Allen donkeys years, even at his level.

I think that in hotter events I generally tend to drink too much on the bike i.e. overcompensate. What I also want to do, is get to a state where I can consume less on the bike, and what I do consume is slower-acting and absorbed i.e. energy bars or bananas, not gels...becoming more efficient and tapping a little more into fat sources. It's noteworthy that I don't stumble through the door & raid the cupboards when I get back from a zero-calorie ride; almost the opposite. I'm also able to do a 80 min run the next day without issue. So something is working.

They do say that if you do the same thing every time, expect the same results. This is me trying something different.


too soon for that model for me....I am struggling with finding some cycling form and am needing the long descents here in Midi-pyrenees to recover from the climbs...
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