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How long for a Marathon after an Ironman ?

 
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 648
Location: High Peak

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject: How long for a Marathon after an Ironman ? Reply with quote

Sorry I normally hate these types of threads as these things are so personal.

I normally partake in a Spring Marathon as part of my Ironman Training but Decided to skip it this year as I find it often derails the training as the recovery is so long from a "fast" marathon.

This year My focus is on Consistency and as such My none-marathon plan seems to be really working.

However I just really want to do a Mara, Especially once I am down to race weight and fitness. So I was think do one after, perfect.

The only problem is I'm doing Wales and as such my options are very limited. Chester is my best bet, But that is 4 weeks after.

Has anyone who isn't a nutter (deca athletes and such who can recover in 25mins) have any experience? Is 4 weeks enough to recover for a decent Marathon effort?

I'm not looking to get round, but to PB, and possibly at GFA pace (36yo)

A further complication is the 9 days following the Ironman I will be in Florida, And while I am willing to run while out there, I am not willing to diet...I'm absolutely amazing at not dieting, probably one of the best in the world! How much weight can I put on in 9days? Laughing

Is it worth it? GFA pace is a BIG BIG ask for me, probably a once in a lifetime effort. is 4 weeks enough time to recover and refocus my efforts, on Marathon running? Or will I be doomed to just getting round?

If it was 6 or even 5 weeks I wouldn't have posted this, but IMO its going to take 2weeks to fully recover, by that time I'm supposed to be tapering....but I won't have trained yet. and training right up to the event will mean running on fatigued legs, which won't be ideal for PB efforts...

TBH I think its not do-able, really hoping for someone to have other ideas?

I've done underprepared marathons before, they are no fun.

Numbers?

Hoping for Sub4 marathon in wales, but could easily end up nearer 5

Current Mara PB is 3:26 standalone. so 3:05 is a BIG ask, but I have run a 3:10ish pace for 20 miles until cramp ruined that race.

Sorry for the Rambling on
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Doddsie




Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 674
Location: N.London

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how IM training will get you anywhere near in good enough shape to run a marathon PB, unless you've never trained for a marathon before.

If you're looking for a big improvement and to get a GFA, then you'll need a good block of dedicated marathon training, so no I don't think 4 weeks will be enough. I think the earliest you should be looking at a marathon attempt is mid-November, though December would be better.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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Location: Devon

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not what you want to hear, but i would say there would be a very small chance of that happening.

After i did Wales a few years ago i found it hard enough to rest, recover and refocus for a half marathon in late October. There's no way i could have run a 'decent' marathon.

Also, if your current standalone PB is 3.26 then i would say a sub 4 at Wales is probably a very long shot, unless you have seriously increased your training and/or lost a lot of weight. I think you would really have to go steady on the bike to have the legs left for that.

Something like this: http://www.raceways.eu/site/events/running-events/the-shakespeare-autumn may give you a better shot. It's on the 11th november, so woiuld give you an extra month.
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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Location: High Peak

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm underestimating wales course I don't know, But long shot yes, My thoughts are more getting as close to it as possible. I do have a couple of 4:20 IM marathons under my belt so its not pure fantasy, Challenging yes, but not unthinkable. But that's something I can work out once I have my running shoes on.

All my Marathons have been part of Ironman Training I've never specifically targeted a Marathon.

As for weight, yes I plan to be at my lightest competitive weight. I'm under the impression being lighter will help enormously in the welsh hills on the bike so this is my primary motivation. This is one of the reasons I really wanted to get out on a Marathon course to see if this extra training and lightness would carry over

This could all go to #@?# however, I'm still a way off on my weight loss, but its going the right way still.


All that said, I think you are all right, I think I always knew it, Suppose I could just not spend the winter stuffing my face doing ~#*$ all and target a 2018 Spring Mara? Now there's a thought.
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snowie




Joined: 06 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you still want to be running marathons in 5-10 years time, then i would think you will need at least 3 to 4 months before even training for the marathon BUT on the other hand I have run marathons with only two weeks rest after completing an ironman ( & got GFA).

Now i cannot run marathons, a 1/2 leaves me crippled for 2 weeks and i now consider 7 miles a long run which takes 3 days to recover from.

your choice
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Gus




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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read somewhere it takes 4 weeks to properly recover from IM.

I must admit it took me at least a couple of weeks post Norseman before I could do the full set of stairs in the house without having to stop for a rest half way... Shocked

It's quite shocking the depth of hurt IM distance does to the body.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 weeks could be the minimum for most people depending on fitness and effort...but the psychological impact may be more....
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TRO Saracen




Joined: 18 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huge ask. You will not be able to do any real training between the 2, as most of the 4 weeks will be eaten up by recovery and taper.

There will still be damage from the IM, and mentally getting 'up' for some more sustained hurt so soon after is also hard.

I have done marathons in the 4-5 weeks after an IM plus the Spring marathon in build, gut feel says I'm about 8-10 mins slower than with the post race marathon for these reasons. To have a decent chance you'll need sub 3 stand alone fitness pre the IM, to run a 3:05.

Getting to sub 3 fitness, while also training for the IM Wales bike and swim.....

IM Wales works well with a Spring mara, you can go full on for the marathon, keeping bikes short and swim ticking over, then have a good 4+ months to go again - next Year?
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to admit I pretty much knew this was a non starter, just hoped someone would pop up and say don't worry you'll be fine!

So yeah going to focus on retaining fitness through the winter and have a push at a spring Mara instead. I'm sure I could get round Chester but as people have pointed out It's hard to have the mental drive so soon after IM and I know I won't have that drive just to stumble home slower than my PB.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: How long for a Marathon after an Ironman ? Reply with quote

SGreg wrote:
My none-marathon plan seems to be really working.


Apologies for being a pedant, but I saw exactly this written in a Police document earlier today (none-policing in that case) and thought is was a typo. Do you mean non?

Reference the Marathon - I'd leave it until next Spring if you're doing Tenby.
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