Tri Talk HomepageTri Talk EventsTri Talk ForumsBlogsTri Talk TrainingTri TradeTriPlayerWikiTeam Tri Talk
Canadian AG Athlete DQ'd for deflating an opponent's tyres!
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14466
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
Now in triathlon the different between retired pro and 'elite' amateur may be less than my examples, but the principle still holds true - professional vs hobbiest is fundamentally not a fair fight.


There are many 'Amateur' AG triathletes who are effectively training full time. Complaining that you can't win your AG in an amateur sport because someone faster turned up is a bit petty.

--


yep....lo and behold races are usually won by those who have applied themselves most effectively...
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2017 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/


Last edited by explorerJC on Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2215
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
Endurance sports such as triathlon, are much more "evenly matched" after years off in post-pro life compared to those where technique/skill is the highest limiter to performance.

Your example of Tiger Woods Vs amateur is skewed by the high skill cap required for golf, which won't deteriorate as fast as functional fitness. That being said, ex-pro endurance athletes are still much more likely than Joe Public to enjoy an active lifestyle and maintain high fitness. For example, see Chrissie Wellington (recently coming 2nd overall and 1st female in a 52 mile Ultra) or Paula Radcliffe (2:36:55 in her final marathon)

FWIW I welcome ex-pros racing in AG, I think few other sports would facilitate the return to a lower level purely for their love of the sport. Why shouldn't they be allowed the opportunity to race and qualify for certain events?


Chrissie is a great example to support my point of view, it was fantastic to see her perform so well in the London Marathon after so long in retirement. What wasn't so great to see was a former professional, multiple Ironman World Champion pummel the amateurs in that age group. Maybe the second placer was happy to have raced her, but it would be a shame if that was her only race winning performance that an ex pro beat her to.

If there was a way to see former pros in a fair race, I'd support it. I think in other sports they tend to come back to compete for fun - not for podiums.

Perhaps you guys only see it from a competitors point of view, I'm seeing it only as a fan/spectator.
_________________
Iron '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39!, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14466
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
TriSam wrote:
Endurance sports such as triathlon, are much more "evenly matched" after years off in post-pro life compared to those where technique/skill is the highest limiter to performance.

Your example of Tiger Woods Vs amateur is skewed by the high skill cap required for golf, which won't deteriorate as fast as functional fitness. That being said, ex-pro endurance athletes are still much more likely than Joe Public to enjoy an active lifestyle and maintain high fitness. For example, see Chrissie Wellington (recently coming 2nd overall and 1st female in a 52 mile Ultra) or Paula Radcliffe (2:36:55 in her final marathon)

FWIW I welcome ex-pros racing in AG, I think few other sports would facilitate the return to a lower level purely for their love of the sport. Why shouldn't they be allowed the opportunity to race and qualify for certain events?


Chrissie is a great example to support my point of view, it was fantastic to see her perform so well in the London Marathon after so long in retirement. What wasn't so great to see was a former professional, multiple Ironman World Champion pummel the amateurs in that age group. Maybe the second placer was happy to have raced her, but it would be a shame if that was her only race winning performance that an ex pro beat her to.

If there was a way to see former pros in a fair race, I'd support it. I think in other sports they tend to come back to compete for fun - not for podiums.

Perhaps you guys only see it from a competitors point of view, I'm seeing it only as a fan/spectator.


do you only hold this view for sport or does it pervade other areas of competitiveness?
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2017 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 8067
Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
do you only hold this view for sport or does it pervade other areas of competitiveness?


I see it for everything where there are artificial categories created to enable competition, abusing those categories is the problem.

So, yes, I would be similarly unimpressed if that stargazing badger lover decided he'd enter the local pubs guitar competition.
_________________
Jibbering Sports Stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2215
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
TriSam wrote:
Endurance sports such as triathlon, are much more "evenly matched" after years off in post-pro life compared to those where technique/skill is the highest limiter to performance.

Your example of Tiger Woods Vs amateur is skewed by the high skill cap required for golf, which won't deteriorate as fast as functional fitness. That being said, ex-pro endurance athletes are still much more likely than Joe Public to enjoy an active lifestyle and maintain high fitness. For example, see Chrissie Wellington (recently coming 2nd overall and 1st female in a 52 mile Ultra) or Paula Radcliffe (2:36:55 in her final marathon)

FWIW I welcome ex-pros racing in AG, I think few other sports would facilitate the return to a lower level purely for their love of the sport. Why shouldn't they be allowed the opportunity to race and qualify for certain events?


Chrissie is a great example to support my point of view, it was fantastic to see her perform so well in the London Marathon after so long in retirement. What wasn't so great to see was a former professional, multiple Ironman World Champion pummel the amateurs in that age group. Maybe the second placer was happy to have raced her, but it would be a shame if that was her only race winning performance that an ex pro beat her to.

If there was a way to see former pros in a fair race, I'd support it. I think in other sports they tend to come back to compete for fun - not for podiums.

Perhaps you guys only see it from a competitors point of view, I'm seeing it only as a fan/spectator.


do you only hold this view for sport or does it pervade other areas of competitiveness?


Of course this is about sport, isn't it? Although I suppose if Adele* were to show up at a local talent contest I'd feel the same way.

*I'm struggling to think of a retired singer who isn't dead.
_________________
Iron '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39!, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Whisk




Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 8430
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
TriSam wrote:
Endurance sports such as triathlon, are much more "evenly matched" after years off in post-pro life compared to those where technique/skill is the highest limiter to performance.

Your example of Tiger Woods Vs amateur is skewed by the high skill cap required for golf, which won't deteriorate as fast as functional fitness. That being said, ex-pro endurance athletes are still much more likely than Joe Public to enjoy an active lifestyle and maintain high fitness. For example, see Chrissie Wellington (recently coming 2nd overall and 1st female in a 52 mile Ultra) or Paula Radcliffe (2:36:55 in her final marathon)

FWIW I welcome ex-pros racing in AG, I think few other sports would facilitate the return to a lower level purely for their love of the sport. Why shouldn't they be allowed the opportunity to race and qualify for certain events?


Chrissie is a great example to support my point of view, it was fantastic to see her perform so well in the London Marathon after so long in retirement. What wasn't so great to see was a former professional, multiple Ironman World Champion pummel the amateurs in that age group. Maybe the second placer was happy to have raced her, but it would be a shame if that was her only race winning performance that an ex pro beat her to.

If there was a way to see former pros in a fair race, I'd support it. I think in other sports they tend to come back to compete for fun - not for podiums.

Perhaps you guys only see it from a competitors point of view, I'm seeing it only as a fan/spectator.


What about a soon-to-turn-pro amateur doing their last race as an AGer? I can think of a few IM athletes who've put in some stellar performances as AGers before quitting their jobs and going full-time.
_________________
2016: Just riding my bike....
Hot Chillee ride captain (sponsored by WattBike, Cervelo, Mavic, Lazer, Continental, Le Marq, Garmin, Sportique, Pro-Cycle Insurance, Maserati)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 16206
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:

Of course this is about sport, isn't it? Although I suppose if Adele* were to show up at a local talent contest I'd feel the same way.

*I'm struggling to think of a retired singer who isn't dead.


Boy George or David Essex maybe? they can stay the hell away from BGT Exclamation
_________________
25 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 16206
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:

What about a soon-to-turn-pro amateur doing their last race as an AGer? I can think of a few IM athletes who've put in some stellar performances as AGers before quitting their jobs and going full-time.


Tbh, there are so many grey areas. This one above (the most 'legitimate' I guess), recently 'retired' pros, AGers basically living as full-time athletes.
_________________
25 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 8067
Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
*I'm struggling to think of a retired singer who isn't dead.


Bryan Adams - photographer now?
_________________
Jibbering Sports Stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14466
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
do you only hold this view for sport or does it pervade other areas of competitiveness?


I see it for everything where there are artificial categories created to enable competition, abusing those categories is the problem.

So, yes, I would be similarly unimpressed if that stargazing badger lover decided he'd enter the local pubs guitar competition.


what categories aren't artificial?
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2017 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14466
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
TriSam wrote:
Endurance sports such as triathlon, are much more "evenly matched" after years off in post-pro life compared to those where technique/skill is the highest limiter to performance.

Your example of Tiger Woods Vs amateur is skewed by the high skill cap required for golf, which won't deteriorate as fast as functional fitness. That being said, ex-pro endurance athletes are still much more likely than Joe Public to enjoy an active lifestyle and maintain high fitness. For example, see Chrissie Wellington (recently coming 2nd overall and 1st female in a 52 mile Ultra) or Paula Radcliffe (2:36:55 in her final marathon)

FWIW I welcome ex-pros racing in AG, I think few other sports would facilitate the return to a lower level purely for their love of the sport. Why shouldn't they be allowed the opportunity to race and qualify for certain events?


Chrissie is a great example to support my point of view, it was fantastic to see her perform so well in the London Marathon after so long in retirement. What wasn't so great to see was a former professional, multiple Ironman World Champion pummel the amateurs in that age group. Maybe the second placer was happy to have raced her, but it would be a shame if that was her only race winning performance that an ex pro beat her to.

If there was a way to see former pros in a fair race, I'd support it. I think in other sports they tend to come back to compete for fun - not for podiums.

Perhaps you guys only see it from a competitors point of view, I'm seeing it only as a fan/spectator.


do you only hold this view for sport or does it pervade other areas of competitiveness?


Of course this is about sport, isn't it? Although I suppose if Adele* were to show up at a local talent contest I'd feel the same way.

*I'm struggling to think of a retired singer who isn't dead.


that's a bit selfish on sports men and women isn't it? You can't compete because it spoils TP's enjoyment...why should be any different than other aspects of life?

i assume that if someone with more money outbid you at a charity auction then you'd take it on the chin...or if you didn't get a job because someone else had a greater qualification you'd have to either accept that or do something about it...

if Adele came to the local talent contest then good luck to her...i doubt it would provide her with much enjoyment, but, if it did then she can fill her boots as far as i'm concerned... (i wouldn't know here from eve anyway, so it would be lost on me)
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2017 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 9874
Location: United Arab Emirates or an airport

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a lot of 'snowflakery' going on....... lets hold back and exclude anyone who is good at something because the ones who are not as good might get upset Very Happy
_________________
Arguing with engineers is like wrestling in mud with a pig - after a while you realise they like it
newMan : I don't know why you think you can address me like that! Don't ever reply directly to any of my posts again please.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16278
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:

Of course this is about sport, isn't it? Although I suppose if Adele* were to show up at a local talent contest I'd feel the same way.

*I'm struggling to think of a retired singer who isn't dead.


Boy George or David Essex maybe? they can stay the hell away from BGT Exclamation


Judging by Gibbs performance at Glastonbury even Id beat him at a singing contest
_________________
Blog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14466
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:

Of course this is about sport, isn't it? Although I suppose if Adele* were to show up at a local talent contest I'd feel the same way.

*I'm struggling to think of a retired singer who isn't dead.


Boy George or David Essex maybe? they can stay the hell away from BGT Exclamation


Judging by Gibbs performance at Glastonbury even Id beat him at a singing contest


Yellow pages ads and singing? multi talented :0
_________________
www.appliedtri.co.uk Tri and Du coaching

www.naturalrunningform.co.uk Natural Running Form Coach

2017 Training Camps http://www.appliedtri.co.uk/training-camps/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
MrTim




Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 438

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
Sounds like a lot of 'snowflakery' going on....... lets hold back and exclude anyone who is good at something because the ones who are not as good might get upset Very Happy


Quite. And where would you draw the line? I saw someone comment on one of the local Parkrun Facebook pages that "Anyone who's fast enough to be lapping people shouldn't be taking part, because it's very discouraging to the new, slower runners and makes them feel unwelcome", but as it's a 4 lap course and some people walk the entire I still lap loads of people with a 25 minute 5k, whilst getting lapped myself!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> General All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4
  Share
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Home | About TT | Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions | Advertising | Contact TT
Copyright ©2003-2015 TriTalk®.co.uk. All rights reserved.