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Cotswold 113 & Cotswold Classic Middle Dist
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1300

PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doca wrote:
First time for me at this event and was happy to get 4:34 & 6th in cat which is a PB for me at this distance, especially as I didn't tapor as its a training race for IM Italy next month. As my finish times get quicker my poor swimming (38 mins) is having a bigger effect on my results as I'm just giving too much time away there.
I can't fault the organisation of the event but I was surprised how rough the roads were on the bike given previous comments about the Outlaw half course a few weeks earlier.
For reference my NP was 256W from 76kg on a 2:21 bike split.

Interesting to see your power. Maybe I am just being unrealistic with the time gains I can expect. I'm only 72kg, but on a course like that, weight is fairly irrelevant, other than the impact it would logically have on cda. But 256W is over 28% higher output than I managed this time around, and saved you 9mins.

I think even in my wildest dreams I'm not going to reach the point of holding 250W at middle distance and still be in a position to run strong. So maybe I should go back to focusing on all three disciplines fairly equally, as with a bit of extra long run training (I'd done basically none), I could likely have expected a reasonable improvement there given I knocked a minute off my 5k pb in the last month.

The roads are poor. Graeme had indicated after the 113 that the council had implied they were going to do something about it, but then in the pre-race email he made reference to that having not materialised. It is probably the major weakness of the event, but not really something they can do anything about directly.

EDIT - spotted we were in the same swim wave. The strava flyby's are quite interesting in that regard!
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there an event in the UK where the roads aren't crap? Outlaw was the same. Worst roads I've races were Blaenavon (old course) where a gravel bike wouldn't have been out of place; I did it on my roadie as it was so hilly too.
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
Doca wrote:
First time for me at this event and was happy to get 4:34 & 6th in cat which is a PB for me at this distance, especially as I didn't tapor as its a training race for IM Italy next month. As my finish times get quicker my poor swimming (38 mins) is having a bigger effect on my results as I'm just giving too much time away there.
I can't fault the organisation of the event but I was surprised how rough the roads were on the bike given previous comments about the Outlaw half course a few weeks earlier.
For reference my NP was 256W from 76kg on a 2:21 bike split.

Interesting to see your power. Maybe I am just being unrealistic with the time gains I can expect. I'm only 72kg, but on a course like that, weight is fairly irrelevant, other than the impact it would logically have on cda. But 256W is over 28% higher output than I managed this time around, and saved you 9mins.

I think even in my wildest dreams I'm not going to reach the point of holding 250W at middle distance and still be in a position to run strong. So maybe I should go back to focusing on all three disciplines fairly equally, as with a bit of extra long run training (I'd done basically none), I could likely have expected a reasonable improvement there given I knocked a minute off my 5k pb in the last month.

The roads are poor. Graeme had indicated after the 113 that the council had implied they were going to do something about it, but then in the pre-race email he made reference to that having not materialised. It is probably the major weakness of the event, but not really something they can do anything about directly.

EDIT - spotted we were in the same swim wave. The strava flyby's are quite interesting in that regard!


To be fair I'm maybe not the best comparison for power numbers as I am probably down on aero. Being long legged I am riding a Shiv on the highest stack setting with the stem flipped upwards. Probably the highest stack available on an off the shelf bike so I assume my cda is quite high.

When I looked at Strava flyby for the swim something is not quite right as apparently I gave my mate a 1/4 lap head start despite starting at the same time?
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1300

PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I saw the same on swim. But bike seemed about right based on our differences in swim splits
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are quite a few here that did CC & give power setup details.
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Post_your_average_power_(watts)_and_average_speed_(MPH)_from_your_last_race_P3499977-79/

I must have some low hanging fruit for aero gains.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1300

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. A simple log of all the power data and bike splits, comes out with the following:

xcrogers ... 241 AP/246 NP ... 2:16:36.4
Wardy ...... 216 AP/221 NP ... 2:22:16.2
dah5609 ... 208 AP/218 NP ... 2:26:39.8
lbmxj560 .. 228 AP/228 NP ... 2:31:10.1

When I compares these against my stats, it would seem I am getting a fair return from my power:

stenard ..... 199 AP/206 NP ... 2:30:32.9

I think there can be some position gains to be had, but it seems I'm in the pack.
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
Interesting. A simple log of all the power data and bike splits, comes out with the following:

xcrogers ... 241 AP/246 NP ... 2:16:36.4
Wardy ...... 216 AP/221 NP ... 2:22:16.2
dah5609 ... 208 AP/218 NP ... 2:26:39.8
lbmxj560 .. 228 AP/228 NP ... 2:31:10.1

When I compares these against my stats, it would seem I am getting a fair return from my power:

stenard ..... 199 AP/206 NP ... 2:30:32.9

I think there can be some position gains to be had, but it seems I'm in the pack.


Yep, where as my 250AP/256NP... 2:20 shows I have some work to do on the aero front.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I think all it really shows is that you can't compare data between people; not all power meters read the same. Hell, even my Garmins record ~7w differently (my Edge records higher, but I upload using my 920)

I rode 2:29 off 175AP/186NP back in June (181cm/75kg). I would suggest it's not that I ride about in the superman position all the time, but that my PM also reads lower than most. What are the biometrics of the guys in the stats above? Plus you even have to consider the all-up weight of each bike too. Although I'd concede that this matters less on a flat course like this.

I guess you can make some judgement for yourselves by looking at these 3 guys. I'm the 3rd one back in white.....

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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Hmm, I think all it really shows is that you can't really compare data between people; not all power meters read the same. Hell, even my Garmins record ~7w differently (my Edge records higher, but I upload using my 920)

I rode 2:29 off 175AP/186NP back in June (181cm/75kg). I would suggest it's not that I ride about in the superman position all the time, but that my PM also reads lower than most.

What are the biometrics of the guys in the stats above? Plus you even have to consider the all-up weight of each bike too. Although I'd concede that this matters less on a flat course like this.

I guess you can make some judgement for yourselves by looking at these 3 guys. I'm the 3rd pone back in white.....


I do get similar power readings from my Stages PM to my Tacx Neo though, only a couple of watts different on an FTP test.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1300

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Hmm, I think all it really shows is that you can't compare data between people; not all power meters read the same. Hell, even my Garmins record ~7w differently (my Edge records higher, but I upload using my 920)

I rode 2:29 off 175AP/186NP back in June (181cm/75kg).

Agreed on the first point. In the ST thread people do put height/weight and post pictures of their position. I just wasnt going to copy that all over, especially because, as you said, on this course weight should be a minimal factor. Actual watts and cda should dominate, rather than W/kg.

I know you've said that before about your Edge and 920. For ref, mine read precisely the same in every race where I double up with them. Which Edge are you using? Do you have both set to include zeros? You're starting/stopping at the same point? Your calibrating (/setting the zero offset) with one of them in transition before the race?

Your power does seem to evidence you are a little more aero than me. In June I rode 183 AP/192 NP, and am a little shorter and lighter than you (177cm/72kg), and I came out with 2:32. That said, you've often indicated your P2M reads low, whereas I've never been able to discern that for my two, so maybe you are actually putting out a little more power than me.

Anyway, I guess I was just using very basic data to indicate that 2:30 off c200W wasnt totally unreasonable as a return. Although clearly the guy doing 2:22 off 216W is doing something a lot better with his position.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ yes ref the 920/Edge. both set to record every 1s, auto pause, both set to include Zeros. It's an Edge 500. Tbh I'm loathed to change to a newer bulkier unit, although it might be more accurate.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
^^ yes ref the 920/Edge. both set to record every 1s, auto pause, both set to include Zeros. It's an Edge 500. Tbh I'm loathed to change to a newer bulkier unit, although it might be more accurate.

I did find my Edge 500 got a bit finicky in terms of accepting a calibration. I never actually got around to uploading data off that device, unless the watch had a malfunction/user error. I have now updated to the 520 and am getting precisely matched data.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bumped ready for 2018, as the race has pretty much sold out!
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RookieSam




Joined: 28 Sep 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I didn't note this thread on a search! Signed up this morning for the August 5th race, can't wait. Will be my second HIM of the year after my first ever so hopefully I'm fully recovered from IMStaffs!
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davidwilcock




Joined: 25 Sep 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

113 is sold out already. crap...
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