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Recommendations for going from sprint to olympic/half

 
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Nick White




Joined: 05 Jul 2017
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Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject: Recommendations for going from sprint to olympic/half Reply with quote

Having started cycling 3 years ago and regularly doing 70-100 mile sportives, I've just trained for and done my first sprint triathlon in 1:30 (faster than I expected). My 750m swim was 20 minutes of breaststroke, so a big goal is to learn front crawl.

My ultimate goal would be to do a half ironman, but olympic distance is probably more realistic for next year.

Since following the training plan, my cycling fitness has reduced due to the low volumes required in a sprint plan and the need to focus on running and swimming.

Can anyone recommend training plans (I use training peaks) which will allow me to build a good base for next year without entirely giving up my hard earned bike endurance for good?

Thanks

Nick
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Chrace




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

20 mins for 750m in breatstroke isn't too bad - I generally do ~14 mins with front crawl. Learn crawl primarily for efficiency and build speed from that if you think it's fun. But learn crawl to save energy first and foremost.

You already have the most important part of half (or full) IM. What's your cruise speed over 80 - 100 miles? If it's 15 mph or above on flattish terrain then you simply need to maintain - and be comfortable.

What was your 5k run time? Do you have times for 10/15/20k (or longer)?

To complete a full IM your swim speed is fine (~1h50m for 3.8k with fatigue). Bike at 15mph and it's a 7.5h bike ride. Walk/jog the marathon in 6 hours. Total IM time 15.5 hours. Outlaw is 17 hour cut-off.

I'll leave it with you whether a half-IM is then your ultimate goal, and which plan you are really looking for to achieve it.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ironically, the (swimming) jump from Sprint to Olympic is bigger than the next jump to Half. So if you can get comfortable with that, I'd say you should be fine doing a Half given your bike volume. Assuming you can do the run training.

The Standard distance is the most 'swim heavy' distance, and therefore the most balanced Triathlon. That's why a lot of people don't like them Wink
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Nick White




Joined: 05 Jul 2017
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Location: Cambridge

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great advice, thank you.

I'd estimate 17mph average for a non-drafting 100. My 5k is down to 22 minutes - 10k was 50 mins but I expect I'm faster than that now.

I think it would make sense to train for half ironman distance with maybe a bit more on the bike.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are so many unknowns it is difficult to advise....

Ideally you should lay the foundations first before piling on the miles...
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick White wrote:
That's great advice, thank you.

I'd estimate 17mph average for a non-drafting 100. My 5k is down to 22 minutes - 10k was 50 mins but I expect I'm faster than that now.

I think it would make sense to train for half ironman distance with maybe a bit more on the bike.

If you are merely looking to complete then it's time to think about swimming. Bike and run are easily good enough and just needs to be maintained.

You are a bit slower on the bike, but a tad faster on run than me. The main difference is likely to be that I started triathlon in 2011 and have built up base over the years (what eJC is referring to). But if you want some numbers my IM is 12:30 or thereabouts (1:20/6:00/5:00), and half IM is around 5:15-5:30 or so (0:40/2:50/1:50).

Biggest difference going from sprint/oly to half/full is to fuel on the go, but you will already know some of that from doing 100 mile rides.

If you want to be fast then it's a whole different kettle of fish and you need to be really careful.

Differing advise on here is because eJC is mostly worried about you getting hurt in the process, whereas I'm rather a lot more gung-ho (and consequently take more damage). Wink
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
Nick White wrote:
That's great advice, thank you.

I'd estimate 17mph average for a non-drafting 100. My 5k is down to 22 minutes - 10k was 50 mins but I expect I'm faster than that now.

I think it would make sense to train for half ironman distance with maybe a bit more on the bike.

If you are merely looking to complete then it's time to think about swimming. Bike and run are easily good enough and just needs to be maintained.

You are a bit slower on the bike, but a tad faster on run than me. The main difference is likely to be that I started triathlon in 2011 and have built up base over the years (what eJC is referring to). But if you want some numbers my IM is 12:30 or thereabouts (1:20/6:00/5:00), and half IM is around 5:15-5:30 or so (0:40/2:50/1:50).

Biggest difference going from sprint/oly to half/full is to fuel on the go, but you will already know some of that from doing 100 mile rides.

If you want to be fast then it's a whole different kettle of fish and you need to be really careful.

Differing advise on here is because eJC is mostly worried about you getting hurt in the process, whereas I'm rather a lot more gung-ho (and consequently take more damage). Wink


It's not just the getting hurt, it's the subsequent need for repair and recovery...may as well be patient in the first place... Smile
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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Location: Eating a Yorkie

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Chrace wrote:
Nick White wrote:
That's great advice, thank you.

I'd estimate 17mph average for a non-drafting 100. My 5k is down to 22 minutes - 10k was 50 mins but I expect I'm faster than that now.

I think it would make sense to train for half ironman distance with maybe a bit more on the bike.

If you are merely looking to complete then it's time to think about swimming. Bike and run are easily good enough and just needs to be maintained.

You are a bit slower on the bike, but a tad faster on run than me. The main difference is likely to be that I started triathlon in 2011 and have built up base over the years (what eJC is referring to). But if you want some numbers my IM is 12:30 or thereabouts (1:20/6:00/5:00), and half IM is around 5:15-5:30 or so (0:40/2:50/1:50).

Biggest difference going from sprint/oly to half/full is to fuel on the go, but you will already know some of that from doing 100 mile rides.

If you want to be fast then it's a whole different kettle of fish and you need to be really careful.

Differing advise on here is because eJC is mostly worried about you getting hurt in the process, whereas I'm rather a lot more gung-ho (and consequently take more damage). Wink


It's not just the getting hurt, it's the subsequent need for repair and recovery...may as well be patient in the first place... Smile

I know you are right but I still decide not to listen. LA LA LA LA LAAAA! Smile
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thetrainingplansource




Joined: 07 Sep 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: Recommendations for going from sprint to olympic/half Reply with quote

Nick White wrote:
Having started cycling 3 years ago and regularly doing 70-100 mile sportives, I've just trained for and done my first sprint triathlon in 1:30 (faster than I expected). My 750m swim was 20 minutes of breaststroke, so a big goal is to learn front crawl.

My ultimate goal would be to do a half ironman, but olympic distance is probably more realistic for next year.

Since following the training plan, my cycling fitness has reduced due to the low volumes required in a sprint plan and the need to focus on running and swimming.

Can anyone recommend training plans (I use training peaks) which will allow me to build a good base for next year without entirely giving up my hard earned bike endurance for good?

Thanks

Nick


Nick,

Visit www.TheTrainingPlanSource.com I would recommend starting with a base plan and consider one of our strength training plans to incorporate doing the outseason (there is no off-season Wink ) . All of our plans are created by a exercise science professional who works in the field full time. These are not your cookie cutter Plain Jane plans. They are very specific exercise prescription which includes embedded video content for all drills and exercises that starts with establishing training zones, building aerobic efficiency and movement economy all the way through specific race execution strategies. All our plans are exportable to 3rd party platforms such as TrainerRoad and Zwift. Happy to help you get into a 70.3 Triathlon Plan to best suit your needs. Feel free to reach out to us at coach@thetrainingplansource.com
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Recommendations for going from sprint to olympic/half Reply with quote

thetrainingplansource wrote:
Nick White wrote:
Having started cycling 3 years ago and regularly doing 70-100 mile sportives, I've just trained for and done my first sprint triathlon in 1:30 (faster than I expected). My 750m swim was 20 minutes of breaststroke, so a big goal is to learn front crawl.

My ultimate goal would be to do a half ironman, but olympic distance is probably more realistic for next year.

Since following the training plan, my cycling fitness has reduced due to the low volumes required in a sprint plan and the need to focus on running and swimming.

Can anyone recommend training plans (I use training peaks) which will allow me to build a good base for next year without entirely giving up my hard earned bike endurance for good?

Thanks

Nick


Nick,

Visit www.TheTrainingPlanSource.com I would recommend starting with a base plan and consider one of our strength training plans to incorporate doing the outseason (there is no off-season Wink ) . All of our plans are created by a exercise science professional who works in the field full time. These are not your cookie cutter Plain Jane plans. They are very specific exercise prescription which includes embedded video content for all drills and exercises that starts with establishing training zones, building aerobic efficiency and movement economy all the way through specific race execution strategies. All our plans are exportable to 3rd party platforms such as TrainerRoad and Zwift. Happy to help you get into a 70.3 Triathlon Plan to best suit your needs. Feel free to reach out to us at coach@thetrainingplansource.com


interesting concept...

our usual Ts & Cs apply...
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots and lots of aerobic bike miles was all I needed to go to Half distance. A bit of swimming, and build up the long run/brick.
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Lots and lots of aerobic bike miles was all I needed to go to Half distance. A bit of swimming, and build up the long run/brick.

But you could swim already, no?

OP is still on breaststroke, but is doing 80-100 mile rides already.
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Tin Pot




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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
Lots and lots of aerobic bike miles was all I needed to go to Half distance. A bit of swimming, and build up the long run/brick.

But you could swim already, no?

OP is still on breaststroke, but is doing 80-100 mile rides already.


I missed the stroke in the OP, frontcrawl would be better obvs. How much work is necessary for an adult to learn front crawl around 2min/100m? I'm guessing a lot, maybe too much.

80-100 mile sportives, unless that is weekly I'm suspecting it's every few months but he's got a base level of fitness.

Hence I'd be thinking, 'a bit of swimming, and build up the long run/brick'.
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Iron '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39!, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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