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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: A couple of things... Reply with quote

Just wondering about two things today...

How bad can your swim pace affect your Ironman?

I'm wondering if I've been going out too hard all these years, "burning matches" in the first hour, setting me up for bike run fail.

How do I avoid dehydration?
I'm terrible at drinking when training or racing, and blew up at both my full distance events. I heard a guy on a podcast talking about sipping gels on the run and drinking small amounts every ten minutes on the bike.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in the first case, yes...the swim sets you up for the rest of the day...

and in the second, easy, sip every 10 mins or as per requirements...if focus is an issue, set an alarm...
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Tony Stark




Joined: 26 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't see a really top finisher coming from outside the 1.10 swim bracket, but I am pretty sure that doing a 62 rather than a 55min swim is not going to make much difference to your day. Slower than a 1.10 swim suggests you are pretty lousy (by club-swimmer standards) at swimming (my best was a 1.13 at Lanza even though I was a sub-2.30 stand-alone runner and a pretty strong cyclist) and I think the effort of getting round if you are that inefficient a swimmer is too much to let you really hit the bike and the run hard subsequently so you are giving away 30mins or more to the sub-60 guys.

Look at a load of results and try to pick out how many 1.10+ swimmers actually manage to place higher up the field. Not so critical in the female cats where competition is a lot more thinly spread.

Backing off by 10 mins on the bike will potentially buy you a much bigger gain on the run as it is very easy to push yourself to destruction on 2 wheels and arrive at T2 with far less in the tank than you need, and no chance to replenish and recover.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You actually need to start all three disciplines at a realistic pace, and build into it. I have had varying amounts of success doing this over the long distance Rolling Eyes Sometimes familiarity breeds contempt, and your early attempts are often the best executed in my experience.

I'm getting to the point where I'm going to have to walk the early run aid stations to stop my pace getting out-of-hand.
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kevb




Joined: 11 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: A couple of things... Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Just wondering about two things today...

How bad can your swim pace affect your Ironman?

I'm wondering if I've been going out too hard all these years, "burning matches" in the first hour, setting me up for bike run fail.

How do I avoid dehydration?
I'm terrible at drinking when training or racing, and blew up at both my full distance events. I heard a guy on a podcast talking about sipping gels on the run and drinking small amounts every ten minutes on the bike.


In the context of 'finishing' within your target time or, as Tony suggests, 'placing' at the pointy end?

I can only comment on the former, unfortunately! But, would say there are so many factors affecting the outcome. For me, I like to swim comfortable and stress-free and start the bike in a positive frame of mind. The mental side of things is a big factor and the longer you can stay in a positive frame of mind the better. If you are coming out of the water feeling like it has taken quite a bit out of you then relax a bit, you may find your swim times improve a bit.

Re the drinking, I went to a front mounted drink system so i could sip little and often.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: A couple of things... Reply with quote

kevb wrote:
Re the drinking, I went to a front mounted drink system so i could sip little and often.

This. I have structure with my eating, but front mounted hydration just means I sip whenever I feel the need. I don't actively think about it anymore.
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Tin Pot




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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is there anyway to measure your hydration while training, apart from colour of pee when you stop, so that you have confidence you're at the right level?

The problem with long distance is that waiting until race day and finding out is too late.
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stenard




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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BSX were meant to be releasing their LVL product which was supposed to do exactly this, but that story does not look like ending well...
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/10/bsx-insight-lvl-hydration-sensor.html

Outside of that device, I'm not aware of anything else commercially available.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
So is there anyway to measure your hydration while training, apart from colour of pee when you stop, so that you have confidence you're at the right level?

The problem with long distance is that waiting until race day and finding out is too late.


yes, but you will either need testing or trial and error in training
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Tony Stark




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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
So is there anyway to measure your hydration while training, apart from colour of pee when you stop, so that you have confidence you're at the right level?

The problem with long distance is that waiting until race day and finding out is too late.


Weighing yourself with an accurate set of scales is a common method of checking hydration.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony Stark wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
So is there anyway to measure your hydration while training, apart from colour of pee when you stop, so that you have confidence you're at the right level?

The problem with long distance is that waiting until race day and finding out is too late.


Weighing yourself with an accurate set of scales is a common method of checking hydration.


about the most useful...but, again, is post session...
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Toyota_Crown




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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I'm getting to the point where I'm going to have to walk the early run aid stations to stop my pace getting out-of-hand.
getting to the point? well you'd be daft not to IMHO. A run / walk strategy is the No.1 IM tip to avoid dying like a dog.
walk = short powerwalks on the hills & aid stations etc obviously
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snowie




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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
So is there anyway to measure your hydration while training, apart from colour of pee when you stop, so that you have confidence you're at the right level?

The problem with long distance is that waiting until race day and finding out is too late.


You could try something like this on a 30 mile bike drink at least one bottle,on a 50 mile 1x500ml +1x750ml
On a 75mile 2x500ml 1x750, 100mile 4x500ml etc

Everyones different but to start with its better to over drink & then find your level.
My issue is how much I need to pee,i try to gauge it so that I only need to pee in t2 ,i struggle peeing on the bike.
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