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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1288
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
I've eased myself into ultras by signing up for Liverpool to Manchester 50 miler. It is pretty flat mainly on canal paths.

I will still be doing triathlons with a Middle in June, IMUK in July and a Challenge Half in Oct.

What is the best kind of running prep for this as I will still be swimming and biking a lot over winter. The race is the 1st weekend of April.


What's your target for it PCP and what is your running background?

If you're a pretty experienced endurance athlete, which i think you are from your posts on here, and you were just aiming to complete the 50 as an initial toe dip into ultras, then to be fair you could complete 50 miles off the back of traditional tri training, with 2/3 long but very slow runs.

I did my first 100km off the back of an intense marathon training programme. Ok it was running specific, but that was about where the similarities stopped. Training consisted around a very big base, lots of short runs, all on the flat. Ultra was bl00dy long and bl00dy hilly! But i had more than enough stamina and strength in the legs to cope with the distance (aerobic capacity doesn't really come into it for anyone that considers themselves reasonably well trained in my opinion) and enough mental strength and experience to cope with the inevitable ups and downs - nearly always food related.

However, if you've had trouble with your IM run training or marathon training in the past, then i think a different approach of gradually building up the runs would be needed. This would buld the resilience into your body to handle the time on feet which will be the big killer.

Happy to go into more detail on how i have approached my ultras so far, and how i am approaching my first 100 miler in Feb. Though i am not nearly as experienced as many on this particular thread, i have developed a plan and an ethos for training for ultras (well i think i have anyway!)

Also, just eat a lot! and before you are hungry!
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1634
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
PCP wrote:
I've eased myself into ultras by signing up for Liverpool to Manchester 50 miler. It is pretty flat mainly on canal paths.

I will still be doing triathlons with a Middle in June, IMUK in July and a Challenge Half in Oct.

What is the best kind of running prep for this as I will still be swimming and biking a lot over winter. The race is the 1st weekend of April.


What's your target for it PCP and what is your running background?

If you're a pretty experienced endurance athlete, which i think you are from your posts on here, and you were just aiming to complete the 50 as an initial toe dip into ultras, then to be fair you could complete 50 miles off the back of traditional tri training, with 2/3 long but very slow runs.

I did my first 100km off the back of an intense marathon training programme. Ok it was running specific, but that was about where the similarities stopped. Training consisted around a very big base, lots of short runs, all on the flat. Ultra was bl00dy long and bl00dy hilly! But i had more than enough stamina and strength in the legs to cope with the distance (aerobic capacity doesn't really come into it for anyone that considers themselves reasonably well trained in my opinion) and enough mental strength and experience to cope with the inevitable ups and downs - nearly always food related.

However, if you've had trouble with your IM run training or marathon training in the past, then i think a different approach of gradually building up the runs would be needed. This would buld the resilience into your body to handle the time on feet which will be the big killer.

Happy to go into more detail on how i have approached my ultras so far, and how i am approaching my first 100 miler in Feb. Though i am not nearly as experienced as many on this particular thread, i have developed a plan and an ethos for training for ultras (well i think i have anyway!)

Also, just eat a lot! and before you are hungry!


Cheers for the response GB.

I've got no target in terms of pace, I'll be with a mate who has done a few 100 milers and 75's but he just grinds them out, certainly not competitive. It is just to tick a box really and see how I like it.

I've done IMUK x 2 & IMW plus 3 solo marathons but I've never run well really in IM (4:30, 4:59, 5:01). Marathon PB of 3:45 (years ago) and 1/2 mara PB of 1:33.
I ran an easy 20 miles at 8min/mile in the build to IMUK this year but blew by stack on the bike after a mechanical trying to make time up so didn't run well, resulting in the 4:30 run. I'd like to think I could train to a 3:30 standalone mara now fairly easily.

One of my main targets is to get through it without injury & ruining my season. There may be good advice to say I probably shouldn't be doing it due to recovery time but I'll have 2 weeks to my 1st sprint tri, 9 weeks to the middle and 15 weeks to IMUK.
I'm hoping this will help massively with my IM run.
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tunster




Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 470
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

best book for my money for training for ultras:http://www.irunfar.com/rfp
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Transgrancanaria, Hardmoors 55, Thames Path 100, Apocalypse 50, Manchester Half, Lakeland Trails 110km, UTMB, Escape from Meriden
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1634
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tunster wrote:
best book for my money for training for ultras:http://www.irunfar.com/rfp


Cheers, just Kindled it for £4.50
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1288
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would tend to agree and say it will help with your IM run Ö as long as you donít pick up any niggles! (but then thatís pretty obvious, haha).

Your sprint will be a write off in terms of performance, the fatigue will be sitting deep and you probably wonít even realise how deep until you try to empty the tank as in a sprint!! 9 weeks is probably a decent time, in my opinion, to the middle; though there may be some underlying fatigue later on in the race as a result of your continued training at an assumed high(ish) rate from the 50 to the middle distance. I would have a really easy 2 weeks after the middle, let the body really absorb the last few months, then a nice big 3/4 week block into your taper.

If youíre into your big endurance build period of your IM training then, as in my original post, a couple of 4-6 hour really steady (read slow as fook) runs in the build-up would be suffice on top of maybe a 2hr run every week if possible (as part of your normal block, get those feet and legs used to the pounding). Get used to eating on the go and just the head and the legs used to going at a stupidly slow pace without getting frustrated. As Iím sure you know (e.g. your last IM!! Haha) itíll only come to bite you later!

Donít know if thatís of any use, itís certainly a bit ramble and confused, but I canít be bothered to rewrite it, sorry! Haha.

Good luck with it all though! Keep us updated!
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1634
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
I would tend to agree and say it will help with your IM run Ö as long as you donít pick up any niggles! (but then thatís pretty obvious, haha).

Your sprint will be a write off in terms of performance, the fatigue will be sitting deep and you probably wonít even realise how deep until you try to empty the tank as in a sprint!! 9 weeks is probably a decent time, in my opinion, to the middle; though there may be some underlying fatigue later on in the race as a result of your continued training at an assumed high(ish) rate from the 50 to the middle distance. I would have a really easy 2 weeks after the middle, let the body really absorb the last few months, then a nice big 3/4 week block into your taper.

If youíre into your big endurance build period of your IM training then, as in my original post, a couple of 4-6 hour really steady (read slow as fook) runs in the build-up would be suffice on top of maybe a 2hr run every week if possible (as part of your normal block, get those feet and legs used to the pounding). Get used to eating on the go and just the head and the legs used to going at a stupidly slow pace without getting frustrated. As Iím sure you know (e.g. your last IM!! Haha) itíll only come to bite you later!

Donít know if thatís of any use, itís certainly a bit ramble and confused, but I canít be bothered to rewrite it, sorry! Haha.

Good luck with it all though! Keep us updated!


Thanks, I appreciate the advice.
Very worried about it impacting my whole year too much but I'm thinking I can maybe supplement the runs with a lot of biking and get by on 3-4 runs a week including the long ones, maybe do some doubles in Feb.
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smitters




Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 1718
Location: Enjoying my new favourite run

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:

Thanks, I appreciate the advice.
Very worried about it impacting my whole year too much but I'm thinking I can maybe supplement the runs with a lot of biking and get by on 3-4 runs a week including the long ones, maybe do some doubles in Feb.


IMHO, if you go steady the whole way and eat enough, then you'll have a period when you're down, but it shouldn't impact for too long. I would say a month or so before training starts to look and feel normal again. If you get onto a proper hole and have to grind it out, I think the effects can run deep.

I did a 24 hour race in late July last year, took it very easy and I found I was really feeling the cold for about a month afterwards, despite it being summer - funny how the body presents fatigue in different ways.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1288
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big training run for me on Friday, a 98km run starting at 8pm across just over half of Devon, from the North of Dartmoor, over Mid Devon and up on to Exmoor before finally dropping down to the coast.

Perfect training run for my 100 miler next year - dark, cold, long and slow! Despite having access to a support every couple of hours, my stomach still wasn't really playing ball from about half way onwards. I think i need to have access to more really bland and dry foods like crackers. My rice and beans went down well though, think i'll increase the amount of that i make.

The mid devon section was unbelievably wet, boggy, slippery and difficult to see. Sometimes getting 4/5km in an hour felt like a win! Despite the coast path being much hillier, it's much better underfoot; so i think there's potential for the pace to be a bit quicker.

finished the run in 15:30, which worked out at about 25:30 pace for 100 miles. At the time i thought even completing 100 miles was going to be nigh on impossible (my legs did not enjoy trudging through all that slop!), letalone my super 'A' target of <24. But the more i have thought about it now that the aches have disappeared, it's not looking too crazy (unless the weather really doesn't play ball, but nothing anybody can do about that).

There are a few quick sections on the course (as well as some really slow ones) , i've got another 2.5 months of training, taper (i ran a fair bit this week and had a really hard climbing session on friday lunchtime) and the race pump and i think there's a shred of light in the plan. But hey ho, we'll see. many weeks of running to get through yet, trying to not get injured!!
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