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JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 220
Location: Worcester, UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Indoor/Outdoor Bricks Reply with quote

I've been doing a brick session every Thursday for most of the summer and really enjoyed it so would like to carry on during the winter.

I've never had much success with a combination of indoor turbo and outdoor run so was looking for any tips from people who do this as a session. (It's usually 60mins, 45 bike/15 run)

I never got Auto-multisport to work properly on the Garmin as it didn't seem to like the indoor/outdoor transition and I don't really want to wait for it to find satellites between bike & run if I do them separately. I can use Velo Reality for the Turbo and upload the bike session from there so could just use the Garmin for the run, only downside would be separate activities rather than a Brick.

Clothing wise, I get very sweaty on the turbo and don't fancy going out in sub zero temperatures soaking wet. I though about wearing no shirt on the turbo and just slipping one on for the run but would the change from hot to cold not be a good thing, even though 15mins isn't that long. (Don't really want to use a ton of different clothing for such a short session)

Any advice gratefully received, thanks.
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 263
Location: salisbury

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Used to leave my watch on the window sill (910 XT), as long as my Turbo was close enough it would pick up HR, speed, power and cadence, as it was on the window sill it would pickup GPS data

Never really bothered about fast transitions in the winter, so just changed into my normal running cloths. Normally on Turbo I don't wear a shirt
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this really depends on the purpose of the brick....they can of course be tailored to suit the objective...
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 210
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every 8 weeks 90 k on an exercise bike same bike same level then 21 km on t mill @ 1%.
At 160 Bpm roughly one min gap...transition.
Total time on best effort = 4 hours 7 mins
Bike split and run combined last 70.3 4 hours 8mins.
One guy commented that it had no bearing on " real" run and bike times......

This obviously assumes fairly flat bike and run. The killer is cramp if you sweat lots.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've done plenty of bricks using a Trainer in the garage, then gone out for a run outside. In fact I prefer running outside vs the treadmill I have right next to me in the garage!

I use a 920XT, and have no problem just saving & scrolling between modes, it only takes a min or two and it's not a race.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mungo wrote:
Every 8 weeks 90 k on an exercise bike same bike same level then 21 km on t mill @ 1%.
At 160 Bpm roughly one min gap...transition.
Total time on best effort = 4 hours 7 mins
Bike split and run combined last 70.3 4 hours 8mins.
One guy commented that it had no bearing on " real" run and bike times......


A treadmill makes you run differently, and there is very little impact; that's how it can be limited in simulating outdoor racing. It's mentally hard though, and doesn't seem to slow Lionel Sanders down. But I wonder if some of Sander's poor biomechanics is down to training on a treadmill so much.
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 210
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan

Surely LS"s "unique" running style, it looks awful, but is obviously very effective, is not down to a treadmill?!
I remember watching the race were Ali b destroyed the bike then pulled up, I think LS ran with SK and didn't look like he did at Kona.
It really did look like he was injured but his times state otherwise.

I did three long turbos straight into runs with mrs mungo riding her bike, they really brought my running on.

I have a long ... t mill run planned the week before Xmas.
I don't get bored, but it's horses for courses I guess.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mungo wrote:

Surely LS"s "unique" running style, it looks awful, but is obviously very effective, is not down to a treadmill?!


Even LS admits his biomechanics aren't great; his mobility looked limited in Samorin, but agreed way better than in Kona. Treadmills pull your feet along, which a static surface doesn't do; putting additional strain on the hip flexors & hamstrings, and extending the knee more than on a static surface.
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moonmonkey02




Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 212
Location: somewhere eating Pot Fish

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Indoor/Outdoor Bricks Reply with quote

JaRok2300 wrote:

I never got Auto-multisport to work properly on the Garmin as it didn't seem to like the indoor/outdoor transition and I don't really want to wait for it to find satellites between bike & run if I do them separately. I can use Velo Reality for the Turbo and upload the bike session from there so could just use the Garmin for the run, only downside would be separate activities rather than a Brick.

Clothing wise, I get very sweaty on the turbo and don't fancy going out in sub zero temperatures soaking wet. I though about wearing no shirt on the turbo and just slipping one on for the run but would the change from hot to cold not be a good thing, even though 15mins isn't that long. (Don't really want to use a ton of different clothing for such a short session)

Any advice gratefully received, thanks.


I'll regularly do a short run after turbo sessions and if you're fully prepared before your session starts its easy get into the habit and do:

- at this time of year have a warm top (old fleece jumper for me), run leggings, gloves and warm hat to put on over the top of your bike gear - takes about 2 mins in total
- practice changing your watch settings if necessary
- running shoes next to the trainer

you won't get cold even if your completely saturated underneath (which i usually am) as long as you cover up for a short run.
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 210
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan
For the first time ever I'm having regular massage and force my self to stretch for one hour per week, I hate stretching. Probably because I'm carp at it.
I also do lots of core stuff, it's my calfs that ache after fast 5 k efforts.

I'm trying to get to the point we're 14kph on the mill seems easy and sustainable off a hard ish bike.

I am now running outside at 150 bpm once a week 6-8 miles, the two seem to be helping each other.

I read an interview with Sanders that said the same sort of stuff, surely issues like that are limiting his huge ultimate potential. My non tri mate saw him on you tube and asked how much faster I was than him.....?!
It looks like he's on deaths door at times.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, treadmills are really bad for running unless your form is pretty much nailed on....

they do serve a purpose however in rehab, high intensity intervals and as a last resort when conditions aren't suitable outside...
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 16414
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one find it easier to run at race pace outside, than on a treadmill. I'm sure some of that is psychological, but the physical movement across ground helps. Ironically, not being used to running on a T'mill perhaps means you are slower on one, as you don't have the 'technique'.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you don't need a specific "technique" for a treadmill...you can tap dance yourself to a PB...but they certainly don't promote good form...
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 210
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JC
Treadmill times really don't matter... I use them a lot as I like them.
My best ever 1k 5k 10k and half marathon times have been set on them, my real times are within typically 2-3 %.

The exception is my one hour distance effort 10.13 miles on a very flat greenway on a very good day... some years ago, I think that one will always be real.

I went through a period of only running uphill 5-10% but not at max effort this seemed to help my cycling? They were hard work and I guess they stimulated the muscles and energy systems used to turn the pedals.

In the spring I do ten min bike - ten min t mill x 3
1.150 bpm
2.160 bpm which is race pace ...ish
3.Flat out which is awful...

I rest for five mins in between each set, going from near max bike pace to near max run speed in 8-10 seconds i.e. Zero transition time is paticulary hard but makes the pain on race day a little bit more manageable.
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan
I knew a guy, and he was a shifter, that couldn't get near his best times on the mill.
In all honesty he didn't try very hard and he said a similar thing, I guess if you use something a lot you become better at using it?!
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