Zwift, I don't understand

mattsurf · Joined: 28 Sep 2016 Posts: 724 Location: Zug, Switzerland

I use a basic smart trainer (Bushido Smart, so no down hill assistance), I am constantly changing gear, and my effort is varying depending gradient, I find that it is a reasonable approximation at reality. Are people who don't have a smart meter at an advantage, as resistance is constant (zwift is adjusting speed), so you can maintain an even cadence and power?

For what its worth, I find that speed, power and HR on Swift are pretty close to the speed, power and HR I see on the road

I like the concept of the group rides on Zwift, I find the D and E rides way to easy, however C rides I am hanging on by my fingertips, working way above my target power and HR, B rides are simply stupid, even though most are advertised at 3.0 - 4.0W/KG (which should be well within my range)

Jgav · Joined: 06 Dec 2016 Posts: 278

jibberjim · Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 8378 Location: Kingston

Jorgan · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:03 am Post subject:

IronMike · Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 1246 Location: Wimbledon

I love Zwift, but I take it for what it is - a way of distracting myself from the tedium of being on a stationary cycle for an hour or two.

I have the same issue as the OP - Can hit a 5 hour IM bike split, ride with all but the fastest of my bike club etc etc, but I struggle with the D category rides on Zwift. I think that a few things are going on:

1) I'm just not very fit at the moment - my FTP is a good 50 watts down thanks to 6 months of illness at the start of this year, and I am only just starting to claw it back.

2) I'm a heavy guy, and I am honest about my weight on the program - I have a Withings scale linked to my Zwift account, so every Monday morning when I weight myself, it uploads this value to Zwift. I also ride with a Tacx Neo, so I am about as honest as I can be in terms of my Zwift ability. As has been mentioned, there are certainly a lot of people on there that aren't I would imagine.

3) I'm not sure how accurately Zwift translates things like momentum into the virtual world. Having got sort of back to where I used to be fitness wise, there is a guy I've ridden with a few times who I happen to know in real life too. We ride outside and he is off my back wheel in a flash - I have to sit up regularly. In Zwift he leaves me for dead. He's a very small, slight bloke - some 60kgs wet I'd estimate. Every hill, he's gone, every flat, he's gone. I'm pushing over 350w just to sit on the back of him.

4) My Neo seems to lag a few seconds. If I put in a big push, it takes 3 seconds or so for my avatar to respond. This is long enough for a group to gap you by 10 metres or so, and once you lose that draft you're done.

I did a bit of Zwift racing earlier this year, and it was a fun distraction, but I use it more as a means of thrashing myself rather than for the willy wangling side of things. If I fall off the turbo an hour later feeling exhausted, then for me it has done it's job. I'm not interested in whether I am a Cat A or B or whatever. I'll do my talking out on the roads in the spring / summer.
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mattsurf · Joined: 28 Sep 2016 Posts: 724 Location: Zug, Switzerland

TRO Saracen · Joined: 18 Aug 2010 Posts: 1246

Never raced on Zwift before but tried 3 over the weekend, just for a giggle.

Cat C, Cat B and a all Cat race.

Conclusions:

Cat A - forget it. Cheats and pros by the look with some of the w/kg they push out.

Cat B - logically I fit right in the middle of the Cat B range, but it doesn't pan out that way. Races are fierce from the off, and I need about 95-100% FTP just to hang in a Grupetto. Won't be a factor, but it is a great threshold workout.

Cat C - probably what B should be. Riding at around sweetspot keeps me in the lead group, with enough left to have a tickle at the end (although I'm a diesel engine and go backwards). Thus a nice productive sweet spot workout and a fun session.

The all Cat race was madness. Tons of people racing C, roaring off at 4+w/kg when their upper limit is supposed to be 3.2w/kg.

For the record I got an 8th, a 19th and a 54th. Decent warm up is essential, as is getting into gear and the watts up 10 seconds before the start.

I'll probably persist - just use them as Group rides with a target intensity when that aligns with a training session. If they are more predictable than the usual group rides then that is good as I find that many group ride go off at nothing like the advertised intensity.
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jibberjim · Joined: 15 Aug 2008 Posts: 8378 Location: Kingston

*Riding at around sweetspot keeps me in the lead group,*

You have quite a strange idea of what it should take to ride around in the lead group of a 1 hour race, it should be lots of periods of above threshold, with some bits of below, or pretty continuous threshold, if you're riding easier than that you're in the wrong category.

This appears to be one of the issues with zwift, people's expectation of races are that the correct category is a relatively easy workout until you "have a dig at the end".

(this assumes there's not a defining part of the course)
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TRO Saracen · Joined: 18 Aug 2010 Posts: 1246

FatPom · Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 5368 Location: My happy place

IronMike · Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 1246 Location: Wimbledon

chunkytfg · Joined: 19 Jan 2011 Posts: 840 Location: North London

How do you change which group you're racing in? I tried to enter a race for the first time a week or so ago and it dumped me in group A with seemingly no way of changing to other groups? I Use an iPad for ref.
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jabba1977ad · Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 195 Location: London

I've just started on Zwift, and watched a few races, also a few on Twitch / YouTube. I have a look at some results, and the w/kg at the end of the race was pretty close to the class definition.

To me they seem pretty realistic, and little cheating.

I'm not sure how we think being good at a TT over 90km means being good at a short road race.

One is a long constant effort, the other is full of short bursts, and almost no constant effort.

You see this in real life cycling - plenty of one day classic specialists are rubbish at the TT.

In road racing, especially short races (most are on Zwift), FTP is not really all that relevant. The race is comprised almost entirely of surges.

You can have a rubbish FTP but great 20s power. And the opposite.. in my case my FTP is around 3.6W/kg but there's no way I can hold > 5w/kg for more than a few seconds. Lots of road racers can, it's what they train for.

A good example is this video... at Cat 2 racer finishing the hour at 4.0W/kg, which is what you would expect.

Watch the race and it is full of massive surges. No steady state stuff at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWB2bWMN5eE&t=3425s