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twhat
Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1187
Location: London
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 Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| PCP wrote: | | PCP wrote: | Tumble turns. I've made it my mission to nail them as I plan on swimming 8k+ a week over the winter.
I tried a about 20 last week in a midday session in the pool on my own and managed to get 5-6 correct with 2 of those pretty much perfect, the rest either too close, too far away, kicking myself into the bottom of the pool and once nearly into the next lane 
My question is - if you approach the wall coming in off the 'wrong' arm, what do you do? Do you learn to tumble off both arms or learn to adjust your stroke so you get there at the same point every time? |
Any tips? |
I'm no expert but i did learn to tumble turn a few years back and found it worth the effort, it seemed to give a boost to my times, at the time. I dont think it matters which arm....as i fatigue and spl increase i need to use different arms for the final stroke.. i just leave that arm by my side and tumble with two arms by my side, extending them both above my head underwater ready for the push off.
Swam for about the second time in 3 years at the weekend. I swim off the pace clock/ tempo trainer but recently acquired a discounted apple watch (series 2) so recorded the session on that. Very impressed by the accuracy of the data, even if i have got much slower... 400m warm up and 6 x 250 was accurately recorded and presented on my phone for post swim analysis.
IN case anyone is interested.. the splits were 1.48/100,1.49,1.49,1.53,1.55. I used to swim 1500m at or close to 1.40/100m. Thats what 3 years out the water does i guess
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PCP
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1671
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Ah ok, so I don't need to use my arm to propel myself forward into the turn.
Finish stroke (off either arm), don't extend other arm then tumble.
I'll give it a try.
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hammerer
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16388
Location: Right Next Door To Hell
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| stenard wrote: | I think there's a balance to be struck hammerer.
I've done what you've suggested for the past few years. But as detailed a few posts ago in this thread, also then paid for a 1:1 session. That was with the same club coach that I've been swimming with for those past few years though, so he knew my swimming fairly well anyway, and had been giving me regular pointers over that time. The 1:1 aspect just enabled him to really focus in on me rather than spread his time around a number of others in the club sessions, and then build some specific drills sessions to do in my own time to try and hone the tweaks.
I'm then also getting him inherently checking on my progress during the club swims.
For £30, I thought it was value for money. Would agree that a simple one-off session however might not be quite so productive. |
Its not about 121 but its about the cost/reward ratio at some of these places, you did the right thing and got a good price, a little more than the coach usually gets for a club session at some clubs in London.
same response to Buzz_
For me its frustrating that people with sometimes little swim knowledge apart for a few hours on a BTF course charge a fortune just to tell you that your arms cross over or your legs sink. I could guess that just by reading someones times as its what nearly all improvers do! It does help in some cases only short term but its not ideal and a very expensive way of doing thigns.
anyway off my soap box
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hammerer
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16388
Location: Right Next Door To Hell
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| PCP wrote: | | PCP wrote: | Tumble turns. I've made it my mission to nail them as I plan on swimming 8k+ a week over the winter.
I tried a about 20 last week in a midday session in the pool on my own and managed to get 5-6 correct with 2 of those pretty much perfect, the rest either too close, too far away, kicking myself into the bottom of the pool and once nearly into the next lane
My question is - if you approach the wall coming in off the 'wrong' arm, what do you do? Do you learn to tumble off both arms or learn to adjust your stroke so you get there at the same point every time? |
Any tips? |
accelerate into the wall. finish first stroke and leave arm by side, finish second stroke leave that arm by side flip onto back and push off on back, torpedo roll onto front after youve left the wall but still underwater, 2 dolphin kicks and go . Its just practice, dont breath as soon as you surface either as you'll create loads of drag. One tip I remember is when the hands are both behind try palm down and think you are pushing down on water to help initiate flip. It seems to help but not something I do.
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Buzz_
Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 275
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| hammerer wrote: | | For me its frustrating that people with sometimes little swim knowledge apart for a few hours on a BTF course charge a fortune just to tell you that your arms cross over or your legs sink. I could guess that just by reading someones times as its what nearly all improvers do! It does help in some cases only short term but its not ideal and a very expensive way of doing thigns. |
I agree, it's the quality of the feedback that is important. I wouldn't go to someone unless I knew them or had a personal recommendation. I don't need someone to tell me what I'm doing wrong, I need someone to tell me how to correct what I'm doing wrong. If all they are going to say is look at youtube videos then it's certainly not vfm.
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PCP
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1671
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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I had a session in an endless pool today and made a few adjustments. Mainly my head position was all wrong and completely submerged in the water and that was leading to a lot of other issues. Also, my hand entry and pull were poor, the arm bending too much.
Knocked 7 seconds per 100m off while I was there and went to my local pool after where my easy pace was down to 1:39's from 1:45's.
Now I need to put everything into practice because it took me ages to swim like I currently do and it feels weird now. I'll probably go back for another session in 8-10 weeks to see where I'm up to.
Before - https://youtu.be/bkMPK5-hfzw
After - https://youtu.be/E-EUffmRR1Q
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Tin Pot
Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2405
Location: Bromley
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:34 am Post subject: |
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9°C Sea Temp
Am I mad to even consider it?
I can add neoprene dive gloves and boots, but my hooded shortie may make swimming too difficult.
Getting to a pool is such a pain.
_________________
Iron ‘17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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Tin Pot
Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2405
Location: Bromley
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| PCP wrote: | I had a session in an endless pool today and made a few adjustments. Mainly my head position was all wrong and completely submerged in the water and that was leading to a lot of other issues. Also, my hand entry and pull were poor, the arm bending too much.
Knocked 7 seconds per 100m off while I was there and went to my local pool after where my easy pace was down to 1:39's from 1:45's.
Now I need to put everything into practice because it took me ages to swim like I currently do and it feels weird now. I'll probably go back for another session in 8-10 weeks to see where I'm up to.
Before - https://youtu.be/bkMPK5-hfzw
After - https://youtu.be/E-EUffmRR1Q |
That’s a massive improvement PCP! Well done.
First day back in the pool, I thought I’d do a CSS test to see where I’m at...
WU
50 FC 50 BS 50 FC 50 BS 50 FC
A bit wobbly but ok.
50 KB 50 PB 50 KB 50 PB 50 KB
Blimey the legs are not up to this.
So I take long breather, HR down below 140 and I set off for the first part of the test 400m TT....I gave up 100m in at 1:49!
Looks like I’m going to have to back off a heck of a lot, reckon I’m at 2:04-2:10 to keep moving.
Still, thexankle seems okay. First to push offs were painful, then ok 
_________________
Iron ‘17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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Tin Pot
Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2405
Location: Bromley
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| Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Doubled up swim workouts today as I was babysitting Friday. For a not exactly lengthy 2500m.
Felt a lot better than last week and did another mid effort CSS after the first mainset: 8:35/4:00 to give a CSS of 2:18. Pretty much as bad as it usually is when I’m not swimming so not anything to worry about.
_________________
Iron ‘17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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stenard
Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1402
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| Tin Pot wrote: | Doubled up swim workouts today as I was babysitting Friday. For a not exactly lengthy 2500m.
Felt a lot better than last week and did another mid effort CSS after the first mainset: 8:35/4:00 to give a CSS of 2:18. Pretty much as bad as it usually is when I’m not swimming so not anything to worry about. |
I do find it a bit strange your previous swim gains haven't stuck. It was May last year that you did a 7 flat 400, and sub3.30 200. That's a serious drop off you've suffered.
Since I improved my swimming to be comfortably sub7 for 400m, the technique improvements have just stuck. The longer endurance fitness might not be there if I take a prolonged period off swimming, but for a 400 and 200, I'd not be losing over 90s and 40s respectively. That's over 5s per length in a 25m pool?!
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Tin Pot
Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2405
Location: Bromley
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| stenard wrote: | | Tin Pot wrote: | Doubled up swim workouts today as I was babysitting Friday. For a not exactly lengthy 2500m.
Felt a lot better than last week and did another mid effort CSS after the first mainset: 8:35/4:00 to give a CSS of 2:18. Pretty much as bad as it usually is when I’m not swimming so not anything to worry about. |
I do find it a bit strange your previous swim gains haven't stuck. It was May last year that you did a 7 flat 400, and sub3.30 200. That's a serious drop off you've suffered.
Since I improved my swimming to be comfortably sub7 for 400m, the technique improvements have just stuck. The longer endurance fitness might not be there if I take a prolonged period off swimming, but for a 400 and 200, I'd not be losing over 90s and 40s respectively. That's over 5s per length in a 25m pool?! |
You’re right to point out the discrepancies in my swim times - they often make little sense to me. Particularly in the pool. Long open water times have made more sense to me.
I’ll openly admit I don’t know how to pace the shorter efforts; 100/200/400/800. All out for 25m or “endurance” pace is all I’ve got. I’m at 21s for 25, so 2s off last year’s best.
Right now my fitness is way off, but I can already tell my feel for the water is coming back. I should be significantly better in a couple of weeks if past years are anything to go by. But I need time with a swim instructor if I’m to improve and be consistent.
_________________
Iron ‘17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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Sopworth
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 125
Location: In the sticks!
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm venturing into this thread as I'm about to get my ass back in the pool for the first time in years. I've not raced Tri for 3 or 4 seasons (I've lost count) and I've been in the pool about half a dozen times during this time.
After a relatively quick look, there is a whole world of help online but are there any suggested sites people could direct me towards with sample sets or programs to get be feeling the love for the water again?
I know there is so much info out there, but if anyone has any glaringly obvious ones that they care to point out?
Thank you
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Tin Pot
Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2405
Location: Bromley
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| Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Tin Pot wrote: | Doubled up swim workouts today as I was babysitting Friday. For a not exactly lengthy 2500m.
Felt a lot better than last week and did another mid effort CSS after the first mainset: 8:35/4:00 to give a CSS of 2:18. Pretty much as bad as it usually is when I’m not swimming so not anything to worry about. |
What a few weeks back in the pool can do.
CSS Pace:
1:55/100m
7:20 and 3:30 for 400 and 200 respectively. Still work to do but feeling positive.
_________________
Iron ‘17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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PCP
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1671
Location: Manchester
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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Css test tonight.
400m - 6:23
200m - 3:01
Css pace - 1:39.
The main thing I’ve been focusing on is bringing my wide right arm deeper and closer to the centre line and it feels so much better aligned.
Getting there.
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