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TRO Saracen




Joined: 18 Aug 2010
Posts: 991

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No denying the TR sessions are tough, glad it's not just me! Not that often I hit every interval exactly on or above power. Usually 1 a week is way off, leading to bailing early or way below power for later intervals.

Zero chance of getting there this w/e.... Embarassed
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Wheezy




Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 1611
Location: Sub 3 (elect)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TRO Saracen wrote:
No denying the TR sessions are tough, glad it's not just me! Not that often I hit every interval exactly on or above power. Usually 1 a week is way off, leading to bailing early or way below power for later intervals.

Zero chance of getting there this w/e.... Embarassed


I find in those situations that using the intensity adjustment function pretty useful. I drop that by 2-4% and even though I have a lower number to shoot for I tend to end up getting closer to the original power output. Purely a mental thing but seems to work for me.
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Jgav




Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a related topic, does anyone know how generous a mk1 Kickr is with power?

For me, I started cycling regularly just over a year ago and did an FTP test with my KK Road Machine and virtual power on TrainerRoad, got 210W.

I've been training somewhat consistently over the year and have switched to Zwift with a Mk1 Kickr. It is suggesting that my FTP is now 257, the jump seems pretty high but obviously there are different measuring devices in the to skew it.

So back to my question, is the Kickr generous compared to other more accurate powermeters?
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Sopworth




Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 124
Location: In the sticks!

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jgav wrote:
On a related topic, does anyone know how generous a mk1 Kickr is with power?

For me, I started cycling regularly just over a year ago and did an FTP test with my KK Road Machine and virtual power on TrainerRoad, got 210W.

I've been training somewhat consistently over the year and have switched to Zwift with a Mk1 Kickr. It is suggesting that my FTP is now 257, the jump seems pretty high but obviously there are different measuring devices in the to skew it.

So back to my question, is the Kickr generous compared to other more accurate powermeters?


As long as you use Zwift on the same Kickr, it shouldn't make a difference to your training. For reference, when I was still using Zwift as well as TR, my FTP on Zwift was something like 13 or 14 higher on Zwift, but i'd used the same Kickr throughout.

I have a Stages PM that is reliable with numbers but less so battery life (currently with distributor or a second warranty replacement!). I initially had that on my TT bike from last winter and ran that on one laptop and Kickr on a separate laptop, and for the same workout the wattage was almost identical. Even when that Stages PM was changed, I carried out a similar test and the numbers were the same again.
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Sopworth




Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 124
Location: In the sticks!

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the subject of cadence when using TR. I've noticed that throughout the Sweet Spot base phases 1 and now 2, the on screen instructions indicate a cadence of around 85-95. When in the SS, my cadence in the aero position is averaging around 100-102. It only really drops down to around 95 when I'm doing the 105% efforts.

Is my cadence to fast? It's a part of my TT'ing that I wanted to improve and making best efforts to do it (my average at National 25 last year was 76!). I don't think my FTP is wrong as I struggle to complete some workouts (over and unders) and the longer 1/5-2hour SS rides are very hard and my legs are spent on completion, but if I drop to around 95rpm at SS I do find it a lot harder.

Anyone any thoughts on whether or not i'm not training correctly?
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2322
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sopworth wrote:
On the subject of cadence when using TR. I've noticed that throughout the Sweet Spot base phases 1 and now 2, the on screen instructions indicate a cadence of around 85-95. When in the SS, my cadence in the aero position is averaging around 100-102. It only really drops down to around 95 when I'm doing the 105% efforts.

Is my cadence to fast? It's a part of my TT'ing that I wanted to improve and making best efforts to do it (my average at National 25 last year was 76!). I don't think my FTP is wrong as I struggle to complete some workouts (over and unders) and the longer 1/5-2hour SS rides are very hard and my legs are spent on completion, but if I drop to around 95rpm at SS I do find it a lot harder.

Anyone any thoughts on whether or not i'm not training correctly?


In short I think youíre fine.

I believe the current view is to race at any cadence that suits you. When it comes to training though, most people have a low cadence under 75, which they donít like. Essentially have as a high a cadence as youíre comfortable with as long as your form remains good - no knocking, excessive wobbling etc.

I was on the low 75-80 side, I find it much better at 90-100 as it feels like less strain on the muscles.
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
Posts: 1173
Location: Tunbridge Wells

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you done any testing on Power vs HR vs Cadence?

I found some interesting results that I didn't expect
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2322
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
Have you done any testing on Power vs HR vs Cadence?

I found some interesting results that I didn't expect


Not studied, but Iíve noticed my HR higher with higher cadence for the same power output. I donít know if itís right but I think of it as trading between muscle endurance and cardiovascular endurance.
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Iron '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39!, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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Sopworth




Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 124
Location: In the sticks!

PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
Have you done any testing on Power vs HR vs Cadence?

I found some interesting results that I didn't expect


What sort of results did you get?
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1346

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
TriSam wrote:
Have you done any testing on Power vs HR vs Cadence?

I found some interesting results that I didn't expect


Not studied, but Iíve noticed my HR higher with higher cadence for the same power output. I donít know if itís right but I think of it as trading between muscle endurance and cardiovascular endurance.

I see the same, and loosely consider the same rationale
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Jgav




Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 226

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sopworth wrote:
Jgav wrote:
On a related topic, does anyone know how generous a mk1 Kickr is with power?

For me, I started cycling regularly just over a year ago and did an FTP test with my KK Road Machine and virtual power on TrainerRoad, got 210W.

I've been training somewhat consistently over the year and have switched to Zwift with a Mk1 Kickr. It is suggesting that my FTP is now 257, the jump seems pretty high but obviously there are different measuring devices in the to skew it.

So back to my question, is the Kickr generous compared to other more accurate powermeters?


As long as you use Zwift on the same Kickr, it shouldn't make a difference to your training. For reference, when I was still using Zwift as well as TR, my FTP on Zwift was something like 13 or 14 higher on Zwift, but i'd used the same Kickr throughout.

I have a Stages PM that is reliable with numbers but less so battery life (currently with distributor or a second warranty replacement!). I initially had that on my TT bike from last winter and ran that on one laptop and Kickr on a separate laptop, and for the same workout the wattage was almost identical. Even when that Stages PM was changed, I carried out a similar test and the numbers were the same again.


I am using the same equipment for every ride now. Probably need to go and do an FTP test as it's been so long since I last did one. Finding SST quite tough at current targets.
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