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New Turbo - Tacx Bushido vs Genius or something else?
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Cobbie




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject: New Turbo - Tacx Bushido vs Genius or something else? Reply with quote

Hi all,

My old i-magic is showing serious signs of age and I think it's time to modernise. I use the turbo a lot when travelling for work and the old design power cable is badly positioned for the Tacx travel bag and is pulling away from the motor - not great!

The Bushido appeals but all reviews are years old now so not sure if problems reported on software glitches are largely resolved? My i-magic is much more reliable so I presume the Bushido is too?
Having to pedal the Bushido to sort out software updates etc doesn't appeal but is it that bad? Having no power cable otherwise appeals (especially with my work travel).

I have a load of Tacx films so I'm thinking that shifting to another brand isn't going to work for me but open to suggestions in the 600 price bracket.

Thanks Smile
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't give specifics...but after my disaster with Elite Drivo (after years of success with an Elite Real Axiom) my Tacx Neo has worked well so far...
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Cobbie




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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Can't give specifics...but after my disaster with Elite Drivo (after years of success with an Elite Real Axiom) my Tacx Neo has worked well so far...

Not really foldupable though Smile

I do get the impression that the software gremlins of the past have been largely conquered which is probably my biggest concern.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cobbie wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Can't give specifics...but after my disaster with Elite Drivo (after years of success with an Elite Real Axiom) my Tacx Neo has worked well so far...

Not really foldupable though Smile

I do get the impression that the software gremlins of the past have been largely conquered which is probably my biggest concern.


it folds up, but is still quite large...
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hammerer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Cobbie wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Can't give specifics...but after my disaster with Elite Drivo (after years of success with an Elite Real Axiom) my Tacx Neo has worked well so far...

Not really foldupable though Smile

I do get the impression that the software gremlins of the past have been largely conquered which is probably my biggest concern.


it folds up, but is still quite large...


I love my Neo but its big, very heavy and cumbersome to carry. Haven't used the flux so cant comment on size / weight but i imagine its similar but is in your price bracket and might not have the road feel, 25% gradient and higher power of neo but looks a good option.

Id check out the DC Rainmaker reviews. I think he actually recommended the cheaper tacx vortex over the bushido unless not needing to plug in was essential as its not worth the extra money.
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stenard




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As hammerer says, I'd read this: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/10/annual-trainer-recommendations.html

The Vortex is shown in the "mid-range" bracket, alongside trainers like the KICKR Snap, yet you can normally pick that up for under 250.

I've been debating upgrading my turbo for ages, but I always end up just continuing to use the watt bikes at the gym. If I did upgrade though, I'm fairly sure I'd go direct drive, and in that realm I'd be going with the Direto that DCR raves about.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it depends on what functionality you want if you intend of using it with training software. If you want the full 'controllable' experience like assisted downhills and drafting, then it must be an ANT+ 'FE-C' rated trainer (Fitness Equipment - Controllable). I know some of the mid-range wheel-on & direct drive units are not FE-C, rather they are only 'Smart' insofar as they talk to the software, providing power/cadence data etc.
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Chrace




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, depends what you want. I use a Tacx Satori Smart which sends Ant+ and Bluetooth power and speed but is just resistance. But it means it doesn't require mains power though which is a big plus.

Bought it mostly because it was the cheapest option to get power on the turbo, cheaper than another PM. It's giving me readings within 5% of my 4iiii so perfect for what I wanted.
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Cobbie




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies Smile

Apologies if I didn't make it clear but:

1. Must be transportable which really rules out direct drive
2. Must have video interface - I typically use Tacx films but if someone came up with an alternative I might consider it. I guess I prefer then to VR - I've pretty much ruled out a cheaper trainer and ZWIFT as I get bored of the pretend scenery
3. I didn't mention previously but these days I'm not doing CP20 type training but just keeping fit. So I'm not worried too much about absolute accuracy but enjoying the sessions Smile

The DCR 2017 review is (unfortunately) somewhat unhelpful as he basically skips the type of trainer I'm interested in - transportable, computer interface and decent level of "real" resistance. I often only have 30 - 45 mins so a hard climb up a French col generally does the trick, although currently I'm riding a very big gear to even vaguely simulate the resistance!

Also, his reviews of the Tacx Genius and Bushido are from 2013 and 2011 respectively, so really a very long time ago. His scathing remarks about software gremlins were very true back then - I remember many ruined sessions when the software froze. One of the things I really wanted opinions on was whether anyone is still suffering with the more modern units? My old i-magic is way more reliable now so I'm guessing that the TTS4 platform is just better all round? I think it's software issues that would give me pause for thought really.

One thing I have picked up this evening is that maybe the Vortex is worth considering since my training requirements are at the lower end of the spectrum and it's a fair bit cheaper Smile
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JaRok2300




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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed a few of the original Bkool trainers coming up for sale lately around the 200 mark on forums/ebay.

I've had one for about 4/5 years and it's never missed a beat despite living in the shed in all temperatures year round.

You can use them unplugged with just their built in resistance, although that's pretty low, or plugged in for the full smart trainer experience. The Bkool software has 1000s of different routes and works with other trainers too.
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hammerer
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive got TTS4 Cobbie with my Neo and to be honest I've still had a few ruined rides on there. Ive had to reinstall it on two occasions also. There is a beta test of TacxDesktopApp out there which looks a massive improvement and is currently free but will go subs based when released. It includes all the videos as part of the sub.

I use Zwift as even though its pretend for just riding the social side (bikes to chase and draft) is engaging and you just dont get that elsewhere.

For software you could apply to Alpha / Beta testing of RoadGrandTours which will be up your street. You will need a reasonably decent graphics processor though, My 7 year old laptop with nvidia 460 2GB struggled but i have GTX1050ti card now and its great. It will have social interaction and be "live" but its restricted at the moment and I see no other riders on my Cap de Formentor ride. The Stelvio was also a little boring. Very realistic scenery though. It also has Ventoux and a route through Pienza and a lot more planned. One thing is more of Mallorca so you can link rides and maybe get Sa Calobra. If they clear the bugs and get more routes this could become a great piece of software.

For what you need the Bushido goes upto 15% grades so go with that unless there are delas on a Genius. When I eventually got the neo there were cheaper deals on the Tacx Ironman which was a Genius with extra stuff thrown in so nearly got that. Add in a discount code from Halfrauds or somewhere and you could get a bargain there....just has an mdot logo on it.
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Cobbie




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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
Ive got TTS4 Cobbie with my Neo and to be honest I've still had a few ruined rides on there. Ive had to reinstall it on two occasions also. There is a beta test of TacxDesktopApp out there which looks a massive improvement and is currently free but will go subs based when released. It includes all the videos as part of the sub.

I use Zwift as even though its pretend for just riding the social side (bikes to chase and draft) is engaging and you just dont get that elsewhere.

For software you could apply to Alpha / Beta testing of RoadGrandTours which will be up your street. You will need a reasonably decent graphics processor though, My 7 year old laptop with nvidia 460 2GB struggled but i have GTX1050ti card now and its great. It will have social interaction and be "live" but its restricted at the moment and I see no other riders on my Cap de Formentor ride. The Stelvio was also a little boring. Very realistic scenery though. It also has Ventoux and a route through Pienza and a lot more planned. One thing is more of Mallorca so you can link rides and maybe get Sa Calobra. If they clear the bugs and get more routes this could become a great piece of software.

For what you need the Bushido goes upto 15% grades so go with that unless there are delas on a Genius. When I eventually got the neo there were cheaper deals on the Tacx Ironman which was a Genius with extra stuff thrown in so nearly got that. Add in a discount code from Halfrauds or somewhere and you could get a bargain there....just has an mdot logo on it.

Thanks Smile

I think Genius or Bushido are still favorite but will invest some time looking at some of the suggestions in the thread.

The vortex might not be as good a deal as it looks as I think I would need to buy an interface to connect to the laptop - I have a query logged with Tacx about this as I already own TTS4 and that's a hefty part of the 150 fee. If I just need the ANT+ dongle and control from the laptop, then that might be a more or less like-for-like replacement with the i-magic but I'm not shelling out for yet another Tacx software fee!

I'll look into the Beta testing. I've invested a fair whack in the films over the years but have come to terms with being fleeced by Tacx every time they upgrade. Mad
Personally I prefer the 'boring realistic scenery' to the interactive racing Smile
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a list of controllable models from the TR site: https://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/204611274-ANT-FE-C-Trainers

I guess it's slope % you'll need to compare, and max resistance.
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Cobbie




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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cobbie wrote:

The vortex might not be as good a deal as it looks as I think I would need to buy an interface to connect to the laptop - I have a query logged with Tacx about this as I already own TTS4 and that's a hefty part of the 150 fee. If I just need the ANT+ dongle and control from the laptop, then that might be a more or less like-for-like replacement with the i-magic but I'm not shelling out for yet another Tacx software fee!


Answer from Tacx (in case anyone else is interested) - none of the turbos I'm interested in are supplied with TTS software / connectivity equipment. So, apart from the software, there are two things that are potentially required:

ANT+ FEC antenna T2028 (the Tacx one is about 38 from Evans, may be cheaper elsewhere). Without this, the computer can't receive the signal, so a definite requirement. I presume any ANT+ dongle will work but have read that the Tacx one is better as the cable allows it to be moved about to improve connection

Tacx TTS Remote T2022 - Controller is about 60 but as you can use keypad on computer instead, I see it as not really being required. I only ever use the i-magic one to change screens Smile


So, I think the Vortex might be worth considering - I guess I would just be riding in a higher gear than if the resistance was higher on the turbo
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mattsurf




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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Bushido Smart and the software is now very reliable, far better than it was 2 years ago when I first got it

Power meter over reads by around 5-7%
The roller need to be tightened to the top of the correct calibration zone or tyre slips
I have a TACX tyre, but find that an old road tyre works better, with more grip so doesn't slip as much, I do at least 100k per week on the turbo and my old S-Works tyre doesn't show any significant additional wear.

It gives a reasonable feel, however, once gradient (TACX films or Zwift etc) goes above 10% it feels lumpy

I find that integration with Trainer Road is not brilliant, it feels jerky and difficult to get into rythm

Integration with Zwift is really good
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