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Britain's Greatest Explorer - A triathlete?
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Jorgan wrote:


Nobody wants to be themselves anymore. Internet, social media, goddamn talent shows for a**holes… Everybody wants to be somebody else. Nobody is happy just to look at themselves in the mirror, see themselves.

Anyone guess the show?


Life...


Just your sort of show JC, ex US SOF types running around being hit by far too many bullets, a CIA black Op in the mix, and lots of firefights conducted by extras/directors that don't seem to adhere to even basic infantry tactics like fire & maneuver, like when they did the assault on the woodland hut in deepest Kentucky.


getting shot at is a vastly over rated pass time...
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fat buddha




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd also stick Sir Richard Burton - no, not the actor fella - on that list of great British explorers....

if you don't know him - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Francis_Burton
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jibberjim




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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Palin.

(or I guess, I think it's a rather crazy question, as exploring is not something that can be ranked, yon bloke who I've never heard of who might be a triathlete doesn't seem likely though)
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Wheezy




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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
Linked to Scott’s expedition, I’d include Apsley Cherry-Garrard, wrote the book ‘The worst journey in the world.’ Man hauled 120 miles round trip to watch some penguins and collect a few eggs. Took him weeks, I think with Bowers who later perished with Scott? Utterly bonkers, and all in the genuine pursuit of science.


I named my Fox Terrier Cherry-Garrard after him....it's one of the best stories ever written, but i didn't include him above because he was - with no disrespect - a follower. He so narrowly failed to save Scott from posthumous celebrity...a sad story.


RIP Cherry-Garrard


Cool dog; cool name. 👍
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezy wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
Linked to Scott’s expedition, I’d include Apsley Cherry-Garrard, wrote the book ‘The worst journey in the world.’ Man hauled 120 miles round trip to watch some penguins and collect a few eggs. Took him weeks, I think with Bowers who later perished with Scott? Utterly bonkers, and all in the genuine pursuit of science.


I named my Fox Terrier Cherry-Garrard after him....it's one of the best stories ever written, but i didn't include him above because he was - with no disrespect - a follower. He so narrowly failed to save Scott from posthumous celebrity...a sad story.


RIP Cherry-Garrard


Cool dog; cool name. 👍


cheers - the house is very quiet without him...
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Cobbie




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Britain's Greatest Explorer - A triathlete? Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
A few months ago, I was somewhat surprised (incredulous) at a statement made on the cover of Outdoor Fitness magazine, hailing Endurance Triathlete Sean Conway as 'Britain's Greatest Explorer'. So, who do you think is actually the nations' greatest explorer? I'm already compiling a pretty long list off the top of my head, in no particular order:

David Livingston
Captain Robert Scott
Captain James Cook
Sir Ernest Shackleton
Sir Ranulph Fiennes - not an explorer
Sir Chris Bonnington - not an explorer
Sir Walter Raleigh
Sir Francis Drake


The mountaineer and extreme sports dude can be eliminated without discussion - not because they aren't amazing but because they aren't explorers. I'm not going to worry you with people who aren't going to win - Mungo Park & the many North Polar explorers for example, including Wally Hammond who is always overlooked but also more of an endurance athlete (I'm probably being unfair to him actually). Also, the people like Hilary who were "British" due to being part of the Empire.
One name stands out that you've missed, Wilfrid Thesiger who was a proper old school explorer. IMHO, the order is as follows:

Captain James Cook - the winner by a country mile. What he did and the way he did it was remarkable; he deserves more fame. Probably the greatest explorer who ever lived but obviously somewhat subjective.

David Livingston - I know less about Livingston but what I've read shows him to be a tremendous person who helped change attitudes. He did however, discover an awful lot less

Wilfrid Thesiger - He would be second for me if he'd been around at the same time as Livingston. Being of the 20th century however didn't stop him from venturing to some of the remotest places and also writing beautifully about them

Sir Francis Drake - difficult to rank him as he's really more famous as a naval officer but getting round the world in 1588 (IIRC) without dying took some doing

Captain Robert Scott & Sir Ernest Shackleton - I'd rank them about equal, both did great things in a flawed way. Scott has been rather too harshly treated by history, Shackleton rather too kindly, given that the expedition he's famous for was a total catastrophe - it's the earlier Nimrod expedition that gets him kudos with me (I guess very few people know that he got to 90 miles from the south pole and turned back because he didn't have enough food and was brave enough to admit it)

Sir Walter Raleigh - how much of an explorer was he?; there's an argument to say that he and Dampier were great explorers, others will say they were both little more than pirates.

PS - the winter journey was Apsley C-G, Bowers and Wilson. I have previously posted the before and after photos on my blog, might go looking for them Smile
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Cobbie, you wouldn't have that Conway chap down as an explorer then?
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Britain's Greatest Explorer - A triathlete? Reply with quote

Cobbie wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
A few months ago, I was somewhat surprised (incredulous) at a statement made on the cover of Outdoor Fitness magazine, hailing Endurance Triathlete Sean Conway as 'Britain's Greatest Explorer'. So, who do you think is actually the nations' greatest explorer? I'm already compiling a pretty long list off the top of my head, in no particular order:

David Livingston
Captain Robert Scott
Captain James Cook
Sir Ernest Shackleton
Sir Ranulph Fiennes - not an explorer
Sir Chris Bonnington - not an explorer
Sir Walter Raleigh
Sir Francis Drake


The mountaineer and extreme sports dude can be eliminated without discussion - not because they aren't amazing but because they aren't explorers. I'm not going to worry you with people who aren't going to win - Mungo Park & the many North Polar explorers for example, including Wally Hammond who is always overlooked but also more of an endurance athlete (I'm probably being unfair to him actually). Also, the people like Hilary who were "British" due to being part of the Empire.
One name stands out that you've missed, Wilfrid Thesiger who was a proper old school explorer. IMHO, the order is as follows:

Captain James Cook - the winner by a country mile. What he did and the way he did it was remarkable; he deserves more fame. Probably the greatest explorer who ever lived but obviously somewhat subjective.

David Livingston - I know less about Livingston but what I've read shows him to be a tremendous person who helped change attitudes. He did however, discover an awful lot less

Wilfrid Thesiger - He would be second for me if he'd been around at the same time as Livingston. Being of the 20th century however didn't stop him from venturing to some of the remotest places and also writing beautifully about them

Sir Francis Drake - difficult to rank him as he's really more famous as a naval officer but getting round the world in 1588 (IIRC) without dying took some doing

Captain Robert Scott & Sir Ernest Shackleton - I'd rank them about equal, both did great things in a flawed way. Scott has been rather too harshly treated by history, Shackleton rather too kindly, given that the expedition he's famous for was a total catastrophe - it's the earlier Nimrod expedition that gets him kudos with me (I guess very few people know that he got to 90 miles from the south pole and turned back because he didn't have enough food and was brave enough to admit it)

Sir Walter Raleigh - how much of an explorer was he?; there's an argument to say that he and Dampier were great explorers, others will say they were both little more than pirates.

PS - the winter journey was Apsley C-G, Bowers and Wilson. I have previously posted the before and after photos on my blog, might go looking for them Smile


i am not sure how trying to climb an unclimbed ridge is not considered exploration for Bonno...not sure also how Fiennes doesn't make with transglobe and the northwest passage...but i am with you with Thesiger..i also like gentleman explorers like Eric Newby...
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Cobbie




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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Britain's Greatest Explorer - A triathlete? Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:

i am not sure how trying to climb an unclimbed ridge is not considered exploration for Bonno...not sure also how Fiennes doesn't make with transglobe and the northwest passage...but i am with you with Thesiger..i also like gentleman explorers like Eric Newby...

Well, I guess it's all semantics really - for me mountaineering and exploration are different things entirely, though you could argue that Bonnington's highly logistical approach mirrored that of most Victorian explorers.
As for Fiennes, he wasn't the first to do any of the things he 'explored' which doesn't detract (for me at least) from the achievement but again, was he really exploring? I would say not.

Somewhere, you have to draw a line to distinguish between categories, mine are a bit tighter than yours on this point, probably weaker on others
I'm being harsher on Wally Herbert than anyone else in my list.

Newby was clearly a traveller and a great writer - I am a real admirer of his but he was an early adopter to use modern parlance Smile
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Cobbie




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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
So Cobbie, you wouldn't have that Conway chap down as an explorer then?

Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are kumquats allowed during the bike leg of Ironman? I’ve just had an idea.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Britain's Greatest Explorer - A triathlete? Reply with quote

Cobbie wrote:
explorerJC wrote:

i am not sure how trying to climb an unclimbed ridge is not considered exploration for Bonno...not sure also how Fiennes doesn't make with transglobe and the northwest passage...but i am with you with Thesiger..i also like gentleman explorers like Eric Newby...

Well, I guess it's all semantics really - for me mountaineering and exploration are different things entirely, though you could argue that Bonnington's highly logistical approach mirrored that of most Victorian explorers.
As for Fiennes, he wasn't the first to do any of the things he 'explored' which doesn't detract (for me at least) from the achievement but again, was he really exploring? I would say not.

Somewhere, you have to draw a line to distinguish between categories, mine are a bit tighter than yours on this point, probably weaker on others
I'm being harsher on Wally Herbert than anyone else in my list.

Newby was clearly a traveller and a great writer - I am a real admirer of his but he was an early adopter to use modern parlance Smile


then surely you have to exclude Cook and Raleigh etc...
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Cobbie




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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Britain's Greatest Explorer - A triathlete? Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Cobbie wrote:
explorerJC wrote:

i am not sure how trying to climb an unclimbed ridge is not considered exploration for Bonno...not sure also how Fiennes doesn't make with transglobe and the northwest passage...but i am with you with Thesiger..i also like gentleman explorers like Eric Newby...

Well, I guess it's all semantics really - for me mountaineering and exploration are different things entirely, though you could argue that Bonnington's highly logistical approach mirrored that of most Victorian explorers.
As for Fiennes, he wasn't the first to do any of the things he 'explored' which doesn't detract (for me at least) from the achievement but again, was he really exploring? I would say not.

Somewhere, you have to draw a line to distinguish between categories, mine are a bit tighter than yours on this point, probably weaker on others
I'm being harsher on Wally Herbert than anyone else in my list.

Newby was clearly a traveller and a great writer - I am a real admirer of his but he was an early adopter to use modern parlance Smile


then surely you have to exclude Cook and Raleigh etc...

Confused
Cook 'discovered' (maybe mapped would be a better word) more of the earth's surface than anybody else
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cobbie wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
So Cobbie, you wouldn't have that Conway chap down as an explorer then?

Rolling Eyes


Wink
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Britain's Greatest Explorer - A triathlete? Reply with quote

Cobbie wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Cobbie wrote:
explorerJC wrote:

i am not sure how trying to climb an unclimbed ridge is not considered exploration for Bonno...not sure also how Fiennes doesn't make with transglobe and the northwest passage...but i am with you with Thesiger..i also like gentleman explorers like Eric Newby...

Well, I guess it's all semantics really - for me mountaineering and exploration are different things entirely, though you could argue that Bonnington's highly logistical approach mirrored that of most Victorian explorers.
As for Fiennes, he wasn't the first to do any of the things he 'explored' which doesn't detract (for me at least) from the achievement but again, was he really exploring? I would say not.

Somewhere, you have to draw a line to distinguish between categories, mine are a bit tighter than yours on this point, probably weaker on others
I'm being harsher on Wally Herbert than anyone else in my list.

Newby was clearly a traveller and a great writer - I am a real admirer of his but he was an early adopter to use modern parlance Smile


then surely you have to exclude Cook and Raleigh etc...

Confused
Cook 'discovered' (maybe mapped would be a better word) more of the earth's surface than anybody else


which bits did he get to before anyone else?
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