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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 421

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think perhaps something that gets lost in doping arguments, because it is such an emotive topic, is that all sport is contrived.

All sport is simply a game (or a race or whatnot) that has been given a set of parameters (i.e. rules) in which it will take place to decide a winner. Who can run 100m the fastest after a gun goes bang. Which team of 11 people can kick a ball into a net the most times in 90 minutes without kicking their opponents (I think Wink ) etc.

Rules about what you can and can't do to help your performance i.e. train full time without having a job (used to be not allowed in many sports) , sleep in an altitude tent, buy better equipment, use a motor for a speed boost, drink coffee, inject yourself with EPO

Are all just rules. Artificial rules created to provide parameters in which to decide a winner.

Sportsmen, especially ones whose livelihood depends on it, are incentivised to maximise their performance within the rules, right up to 69.9mph on the motorway (analogy) - although perhaps 75mph is more appropriate as almost all police enforce the known leeway.
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Pedro Peru




Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 993
Location: Leeds

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:
I think perhaps something that gets lost in doping arguments, because it is such an emotive topic, is that all sport is contrived.

All sport is simply a game (or a race or whatnot) that has been given a set of parameters (i.e. rules) in which it will take place to decide a winner. Who can run 100m the fastest after a gun goes bang. Which team of 11 people can kick a ball into a net the most times in 90 minutes without kicking their opponents (I think Wink ) etc.

Rules about what you can and can't do to help your performance i.e. train full time without having a job (used to be not allowed in many sports) , sleep in an altitude tent, buy better equipment, use a motor for a speed boost, drink coffee, inject yourself with EPO

Are all just rules. Artificial rules created to provide parameters in which to decide a winner.

Sportsmen, especially ones whose livelihood depends on it, are incentivised to maximise their performance within the rules, right up to 69.9mph on the motorway (analogy) - although perhaps 75mph is more appropriate as almost all police enforce the known leeway.

I have to take issue with this. The problem was that some people were too poor to train full time and had to get jobs. Others were even poorer and said they coulddn't do the sport without being paid to do the sport, as unpaid time off from their jobs was too prohibitive. Obviously, real gentlemen, didn't need to work and could just train when they wanted to.
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 421

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I understand what issue there is to take?

Almost all sport used to be amateur, now it's not.

Allowing sport to be professional raises the standard, meaning that performance is improved. It isn't more complicated than that.

(it's not about class blah blah. for the point that I am making)
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GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 10142
Location: United Arab Emirates or an airport

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5X-9brvoq0
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Pedro Peru




Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 993
Location: Leeds

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="tuckandgo"]I'm not sure I understand what issue there is to take?

Almost all sport used to be amateur, now it's not.

Allowing sport to be professional raises the standard, meaning that performance is improved. It isn't more complicated than that.

(it's not about class blah blah. for the point that I am making)[/quote
Sorry, I was being sarcastic. All I meant was in the very early days of the olympics the fact an athlete had to work meant they were only middle class at best. There was an American rower at Paris 1924 Olympics that worked in London having studied at Oxbridge, the other USA rowers weren't overly keen on him because he worked as lawyer (iirc). His firm paid for his Channel crossing and maybe accomodation. They stopped him competing as he was a 'professional', but really it was just prejudice.
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 421

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Pedro Peru"]
tuckandgo wrote:
I'm not sure I understand what issue there is to take?

Almost all sport used to be amateur, now it's not.

Allowing sport to be professional raises the standard, meaning that performance is improved. It isn't more complicated than that.

(it's not about class blah blah. for the point that I am making)[/quote
Sorry, I was being sarcastic. All I meant was in the very early days of the olympics the fact an athlete had to work meant they were only middle class at best. There was an American rower at Paris 1924 Olympics that worked in London having studied at Oxbridge, the other USA rowers weren't overly keen on him because he worked as lawyer (iirc). His firm paid for his Channel crossing and maybe accomodation. They stopped him competing as he was a 'professional', but really it was just prejudice.



If you like all that stuff go read 'The Boys in the Boat' - superb book about the US 8 for the 1936 Olympics. I will say no more. (and do read the book, the netflix doc isn't nearly as good)
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