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Quad pain at 34Km

 
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Andy G




Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 484
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:51 am    Post subject: Quad pain at 34Km Reply with quote

Paris marathon done this past weekend.

Quad pain at 34Km reduced me to a bit of a shuffle for the last 8Km.

Had completed a few 20+ mile long runs in the build up, don't think dehydration of lack of nutrition were to blame. Just need to strengthen up the legs.

I'm thinking I probably needed a couple more 20+ milers and due to the bad weather we had recently, I think I did too many of my runs on the treadmill rather than out on the streets.

I'm also thinking that I should have done some downhill running for extra leg strengthening. I know I would have to do this progressively to reduce injury risk, but would downhill reps ultimately be done within a medium-long run, or as a stand alone session (with an appropriate warm up/down?)

Any advice gratefully received.

Andy G
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both

Learning to run down hill efficiently is very important and therefore descending well on long runs with tired legs is crucial if this is a factor in the race

Descending drills should be practised in training and combined in hill training sessions....
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1242
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iíve done a lot of hill reps and hillier runs generally this year as part of my marathon programme. Meters climbed is about the one stat I have over most of my club mates, despite their far superior mileage. Whether Iím descending with any decent form or not I couldnít tell you but I do try and keep it smooth. It certainly helped in x-country season, Iíll let you know if it has transferred to 42.2k.....
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In your race report you state you were wearing brand new racing flats as apposed to the shoes you had used for training. Could this have 'impacted' your quads?
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
In your race report you state you were wearing brand new racing flats as apposed to the shoes you had used for training. Could this have 'impacted' your quads?

And were they same drop? Might be a daft question but still...
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all races I do at half distance and longer quad pain is my limiting factor. I have done quite a bit of millage & long runs but I expect to be running with a pair of 4" x 4" timbers for the last 5 miles of London mara next weekend.
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to get pain in my everything at 34km

I think you were doing well to be able to pin point it to one part of your body.

I even get pain in my arms, I am especially prone to bicep cramp!
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Andy G




Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 484
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
In your race report you state you were wearing brand new racing flats as apposed to the shoes you had used for training. Could this have 'impacted' your quads?


Almost certainly that was part of the problem. I was so concerned about the shoes being too thin of sole and causing foot pain that I didn't even consider the additional risk of quad pain. It had been 4 years since my last open marathon!

It's a difficult one in my eyes as there are a number of factors involved and it's not as if one regularly runs a marathon distance, let alone at race pace. So it will be difficult to judge whether or not I have done enough to train the quads to prevent a repeat at my next attempt at the distance. Although my long runs were done untapered and during weeks of big (for me) mileages, the stress of those long runs was clearly not enough to prevent the cramps at 34Km into the race.

My thoughts are that some of my peak long runs need to include some downhill work, with more of the session at race pace and possibly in race shoes. Also maybe those long runs should be done a day after a session of downhill reps.

Andy G
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Andy G




Joined: 05 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
In your race report you state you were wearing brand new racing flats as apposed to the shoes you had used for training. Could this have 'impacted' your quads?

And were they same drop? Might be a daft question but still...


I doubt very much that they were the same drop. With different shoes and running at a different speed to the majority of my runs I was almost certainly running on a different part of my foot and using different muscles to control myself at foot-strike.

I would imagine that I would have been running more mid-foot in the race rather than more heel-strike during my long training runs. Not sure whether that would place more stress on the quad or the calf? FWIW, most other legs muscles (other than my quads) were not too sore at all after the race which is my usual experience. If this puts me in the category of being a "quad dominant" runner then my next question is how does one best reduce such dominance and utilise the other leg muscles to a greater degree?

Andy G
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Andy G




Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 484
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Both

Learning to run down hill efficiently is very important and therefore descending well on long runs with tired legs is crucial if this is a factor in the race

Descending drills should be practised in training and combined in hill training sessions....


Thank you. I will be incorporating both into my next marathon (actually IM) build.

Andy G
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1626
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy G wrote:
Chrace wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
In your race report you state you were wearing brand new racing flats as apposed to the shoes you had used for training. Could this have 'impacted' your quads?

And were they same drop? Might be a daft question but still...


I doubt very much that they were the same drop. With different shoes and running at a different speed to the majority of my runs I was almost certainly running on a different part of my foot and using different muscles to control myself at foot-strike.

I would imagine that I would have been running more mid-foot in the race rather than more heel-strike during my long training runs. Not sure whether that would place more stress on the quad or the calf? FWIW, most other legs muscles (other than my quads) were not too sore at all after the race which is my usual experience. If this puts me in the category of being a "quad dominant" runner then my next question is how does one best reduce such dominance and utilise the other leg muscles to a greater degree?

Andy G


All about the glutes most likely!

I'm exactly the same, very quad dominant for 'normal' running and very calf heavy when going really quickly. My glutes apparently aren't interested at all, so i am supposed to be doing work to get them 'firing' again. This is pretty much the root cause of all my niggles and injuries, as it forces me to use my hips more, they suffer, then my quads, then my knees hurt etc etc through the chain.

Got given this link by my physio reecntly, so i'm going to try and do this once a week, at least, if i can motivate myself!

https://www.prehabexercises.com/hip-and-glute-activation/
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
In your race report you state you were wearing brand new racing flats as apposed to the shoes you had used for training. Could this have 'impacted' your quads?

And were they same drop? Might be a daft question but still...


drop or differential?
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 2806
Location: Eating a Yorkie

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Chrace wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
In your race report you state you were wearing brand new racing flats as apposed to the shoes you had used for training. Could this have 'impacted' your quads?

And were they same drop? Might be a daft question but still...


drop or differential?

Drop. From personal experience (n=1) my calves go bust if I use lower drop since it naturally forces me more forwards.

I always considered differential too minor to even consider for my level of running.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Chrace wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
In your race report you state you were wearing brand new racing flats as apposed to the shoes you had used for training. Could this have 'impacted' your quads?

And were they same drop? Might be a daft question but still...


drop or differential?

Drop. From personal experience (n=1) my calves go bust if I use lower drop since it naturally forces me more forwards.

I always considered differential too minor to even consider for my level of running.


forces you forwards meaning?
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mortirolo




Joined: 21 Jul 2017
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: Quad pain at 34Km Reply with quote

Andy G wrote:
Paris marathon done this past weekend.

Quad pain at 34Km reduced me to a bit of a shuffle for the last 8Km.

Had completed a few 20+ mile long runs in the build up, don't think dehydration of lack of nutrition were to blame. Just need to strengthen up the legs.

I'm thinking I probably needed a couple more 20+ milers and due to the bad weather we had recently, I think I did too many of my runs on the treadmill rather than out on the streets.

I'm also thinking that I should have done some downhill running for extra leg strengthening. I know I would have to do this progressively to reduce injury risk, but would downhill reps ultimately be done within a medium-long run, or as a stand alone session (with an appropriate warm up/down?)

Any advice gratefully received.

Andy G


I'd say what others suggest practice running down hill, I found by wearing Compressport Quad socks really helped me, of course I'm not saying it's a cure, but since wearing these I don't suffer like a use to. Maybe a thought anyway.
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