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Markers/Readiness for 70.3
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Barryc




Joined: 21 May 2018
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:28 pm    Post subject: Markers/Readiness for 70.3 Reply with quote

Hi apologies if this has came up before search didnít yield much!!

What tests do you do In order to see If your ready for a 70.3. Is it as simple as if you can do an Olympic your ready for 70.3? Just follow a 12,16 week plan and you will be fine?

I am looking for training markers/goals/checklist to have before embarking on a 70.3 training plan.


Something lke before starting plan
Comfortable swimming 1900m?
Comfortable riding 100km?
Comfortable running 10miles?


Then tests during to make sure you are on track?

How did you set a goal time when it was your first 70.3? I know everyone says just finish but we all have a time in our minds, how did you get yours? Did you train to that goal? Or did you make sure you had the fitness before hand to hit those goal times?
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 382
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Barry
Welcome.

I guess the most important aspect of your first 70.3 is finishing.
Several don't for several reasons.
I didn't !

That said I knew my calf was not in a happy place this time last year and hopefully I'll complete the Deva 70.3 next Sunday this year.

I did the Sundowner, a great race, last Sept, got all the way round and was pleased with my time.

I was swimming between 33-35 mins every week for 1900 m
I was cycling 70- 80 kms twice a week on a tough course with several climbs, both 70.3s this year are flat and I knew I could run 21 kms on tired legs.

Solid food in the first half of the bike works well, nutrition is important and can mean the difference between achieving your goals and the dreaded bunk and a World of hurt.

Ideally you should have completed a sprint an Olympic and some longer stuff, but if your fit or pace it well, or preferably both, I've seen several people achieve good results first time out.

Have you entered a race or just thinking about it?
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 442
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mungo wrote:
Hi Barry
Welcome.

I guess the most important aspect of your first 70.3 is finishing.
Several don't for several reasons.
I didn't !

That said I knew my calf was not in a happy place this time last year and hopefully I'll complete the Deva 70.3 next Sunday this year.

I did the Sundowner, a great race, last Sept, got all the way round and was pleased with my time.

I was swimming between 33-35 mins every week for 1900 m
I was cycling 70- 80 kms twice a week on a tough course with several climbs, both 70.3s this year are flat and I knew I could run 21 kms on tired legs.

Solid food in the first half of the bike works well, nutrition is important and can mean the difference between achieving your goals and the dreaded bunk and a World of hurt.

Ideally you should have completed a sprint an Olympic and some longer stuff, but if your fit or pace it well, or preferably both, I've seen several people achieve good results first time out.

Have you entered a race or just thinking about it?


Mungo, just out of interest, what reasons would you say people don't finish?

Got my first one coming up in 12 weeks. Starting to worry!
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 382
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rosey
The last one I did ... two freaked in the water, one guy smashed his carbon rim.... ouch and I saw a fella limping really badly early on in the run ... he may have finished but he would have been better off calling it a day.

Didn't mean to alarm you, adequate prep, nutrition and pacing and you will do fine.

I knew I wouldn't finish my first
But swim and bike went well got to the run in 3:13 ish so thought I may as well have a jog.

Got cramp and thought it had gone again so hobbled to the end of the second lap and stopped.
It was cramp and the calf has not been an issue since. I should have walked, hobbled, crawled to the finish but hey ho thems the breaks.
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 442
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Mungo"]Rosey
The last one I did ... two freaked in the water, one guy smashed his carbon rim.... ouch and I saw a fella limping really badly early on in the run ... he may have finished but he would have been better off calling it a day.

Didn't mean to alarm you, adequate prep, nutrition and pacing and you will do fine.

I knew I wouldn't finish my first
But swim and bike went well got to the run in 3:13 ish so thought I may as well have a jog.

Got cramp and thought it had gone again so hobbled to the end of the second lap and stopped.
It was cramp and the calf has not been an issue since. I should have walked, hobbled, crawled to the finish but hey ho thems the breaks.[/quote

Oh you're not alarming me, just the usual beginners doubts! 12 weeks out and not sure I'm doing enough and still not dialled in my nutrition.

I'm sure I'll be fine, the training plan is starting to ramp things up. Off to Ibiza for a week this Saturday, so I should be getting in lots more swimming!
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggest difference from oly to HIM is food, especially as a first timer. Oly you can survive on basically nothing but water (3 hours or so) but doing HIM in 5-6(+) hours and the body will start to complain. Getting around is quite frankly about stuffing yourself whenever you get the chance.

Predicting a time is a different beast.

Swim should be fairly easy to predict given you can do 1.9k in the pool in most training sessions. Hang back a bit not to get whacked, navigate reasonably well and you'll hit the same time OW due to draft and being in a race. My experience anyway.

Bike depends on so many factors, but really do hold back on the day. I've blown numerous HIMs by having far too much fun chasing people on the bike. This results in two things - you can't run for sh!t afterwards due to dead legs, and just as importantly you can't eat enough when the HR is constantly maxing out. It's good fun but it really doesn't give a great overall time. Smile

Run then depends on how well you managed to hold yourself back on the first two events. It's pretty much logarithmic proportionate. Go double hard on the bike and it'll be four times as hard on the run. It's also far easier to eat on the bike than when running (again, personal experience) so use the bike as a platform to prepare for run.

When I have managed to do it right my bike was down about 10% from what I could have done but run was within 5% of PB. When I have done it wrong, ahem, bike was blisteringly fast but run was PB+50%. Smile

HTH.
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
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Location: Preston

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace
That's about the gist of it.

I'm a slow swimmer, but 35 mins sees a HR of 135-140.
I could do it in 33 but I would be in a mess as soon as I hit dry land.

Last 70.3 I really tried to ignore everyone.
160 bpm all the way on the bike, I know I can hold that for 4 hours so the run went well.

Lots and lots of nutrition stuff about these days, I guess if you eat as much s you can by 50 k your back at the start of your Olympic race

I ate, two peanut butter rolls, two mars bars and a sis bar in the first 40 k.
Lived on gels and sis in my bottle after that.

Good luck to anyone racing this weekend

Rosey stick at it and you'll be fine!
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, that is brilliant advice! Thank you
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1815

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With respect to the OP, for me "readiness" came from simply wanting to do one. A 70.3 is still just about short enough that I think most people who can do an olympic could at least complete one without any real step change in training.

Clearly if you want to execute it, you need to increase volume and specificity, but that's a slightly different question.

In terms of setting a goal time, I simply looked at what I could do for an oly, and what I could do over the distances standalone, and extrapolated a little bit. The swim should really be about on a par with Oly pace, bike a bit less effort but not too much (to estimate a time, you'd need to know a fair bit about the course and then put it in context of other similar type rides you have done), and then maybe a 5-15% drop on the run versus a standalone HM time.

I've done HIM's reasonably well when the race itself was my longest bike ride of the year to that point. That's with a fair amount of turbo time though, which really maximises available time given there's not dead time.

As for the later nutrition point raised by Mungo, I think the thing to be aware of is that it is all very personal. What was described there is pretty high intake IMO, when that was just the first 40k of the bike. For comparison, in Mallorca I had the following:

Immediately pre-swim - 1xGu Energy gel
In T1 (whilst running to bike) - 1x soreen mini bar (first time I'd ever tried this - the long transition helped get it down)
On bike - c1.25 litres of PH1500, 3x Gu Energy gels, c4 pieces of Sainsbury's flapjack from their 18 piece box (I think I had 6 in my bento box, but only ate 4)
In T2 (whilst running from bike) - 1x Gu Energy gel
During run - 1x Gu Roctane energy gel, small sips of water at each aid station, 1 mouthful of red bull and 1 mouthful of coke

So on the bike, food wise, I only had 3 gels and 4 pieces of flapjack over 2.75hrs. I find anymore and the run is rather uncomfortable, especially as a 70.3 run is still high intensity.

But as I say, it's all individual. I would suggest some longer turbo sessions where you simulate your race effort and nutrition strategy, and then try and run off it at target race pace for at least 30 mins. That will give you a reasonable idea of how you might react.

EDIT - one added thought... nutrition obviously depends on how long you think the race will take you. Someone who is faster will likely need less than someone who is slower because they are working for less time (even factoring in that a faster person will be working at a higher 'absolute' intensity), so you need to bear that in mind as well. I know Mungo has said c5hrs is the target, which is why I was drawing a comparison to myself there, as I went 4:56 at a lumpy-bike and hot-run Mallorca (0:31/2:45/1:33).
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 382
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stenard
Sub 5 on that course bodes well for a fast full distance, or faster 70.3.
There are still places left at the Sundowner?!?

You probably consumed more calories than I did.

The buttys were two pieces of bread total lots of organic peanut butter, the mats bars were fourfor a pound size and the sis bar was 60g?!

All the goodies fitted in a bento box with two gels I never used!

I had practised this twice, once on the turbo 160 bpm for 2.5 hours and once outside which is more difficult but can be done. I did eat them all rather fast but felt fine, rode well and only needed two gels on the run.

Again, it's all very individual, some of the pros only use gels for full distance ?!
Not sure even my cast iron tummy would go for that.

Watch me go and have a mare next Sunday, with half of it spent in a Porta loo. Think I'll be over the 5 hour mark, but as always I will give it death.

What did your coach say about the open water/ pool disparity?
I really can't see it being tumbles? And you don't anyway?!?
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stenard
Sub 5 on that course bodes well for a fast full distance, or faster 70.3.
There are still places left at the Sundowner?!?

You probably consumed more calories than I did.

The buttys were two pieces of bread total lots of organic peanut butter, the mats bars were fourfor a pound size and the sis bar was 60g?!

All the goodies fitted in a bento box with two gels I never used!

I had practised this twice, once on the turbo 160 bpm for 2.5 hours and once outside which is more difficult but can be done. I did eat them all rather fast but felt fine, rode well and only needed two gels on the run.

Again, it's all very individual, some of the pros only use gels for full distance ?!
Not sure even my cast iron tummy would go for that.

Watch me go and have a mare next Sunday, with half of it spent in a Porta loo. Think I'll be over the 5 hour mark, but as always I will give it death.

What did your coach say about the open water/ pool disparity?
I really can't see it being tumbles? And you don't anyway?!?
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mungo wrote:
You probably consumed more calories than I did.

Raises a good question - I probably should try and work out how many calories that is, along with the PH1500 which has some calories in it, in terms of finalising my Copenhagen plan. My 70.3 nutrition to date has realistically been a bit of whatever I fancy, but I probably need to be more structured and put some proper thought into it for a full.

Mungo wrote:
What did your coach say about the open water/ pool disparity?
I really can't see it being tumbles? And you don't anyway?!?

I think there's an element of being fast off the wall and that flattering my pool times. I also think I'm maybe overcooking the first bit of the swim.

I think I'm very "diesel engine" with swimming. At all club sessions, I have always been clear with the coach that I much prefer threshold repeats with short rest compared to faster than threshold repeats with long rest.

For example, the last club set before Mallorca was 16 continuous threshold 100s with reducing rest (4*100 of 1:50, then off 1:45, then off 1:40, then off 1:35). I found those a bit of a cruise holding 1:31-1:32 on every rep, even when the final set was literally take one breath and go again.

Yet a couple of weeks before, we'd done a set with a straight 400 (I did in 6:00) and then after that (after a bit of a break) was 10*100 off 1:40 but trying to swim a second or two faster than the pace of the 400. I bailed after 8, as I missed the turnaround. Starting at 1:28ish pace totally fried me to the extent that 7 reps later I couldnt even swim 1:40.

The point of those examples - I think they support the fact I'm getting caught up in the carnage at the start of the swim/carried away, and that's putting me in the red which ends up totally killing my speed. When I swim a 1500TT, or 2000TT, the first few hundred metres feels like a cruise. In a race, I know I'm working hard from the off, so I think that's too fast.

This was reinforced on Sunday at Southport. I swam even slower than Mallorca, as I think the mass start effect exacerbated that issue. For Deva Oly in 10 days, I am going to make a conscious effort to let people shoot off and try and swim my own race. That way I can try and hold my pace, like I can in the pool when I do long TTs, compared to these last two races where I have slowly ground to a halt.

I also think I need to swim more in OW. I used to swim weekly. I now swim OW hardly at all outside of racing. I am going to try and change that.
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 382
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stenard
Why are you doing the Oly?
Wouldn't the Deva 70.3 be more beneficial to your Copenhagen plans?

It's a good course, it's crap that you have really fast 30 year olds running on the same roads doing 10 k whilst old men like me are dying a thousand deaths at 14 kph.... ish

Personally it's a long race, you ll be surprised how well you go for less effort, your going to find some feet at your speeds no matter what, your a good runner, Chester is three loops you can get it back there.

I'm not a coach, but you really do seem to be putting a lot into the start of your swim and a bit of pressure on yourself.

Only one hill at Maford, and the dual carriageway is super fast, I'll spin out as I have a compact! Road surface is carp but that's the UK I guess.


I was offered some swim coaching, as everybody who sees my times says " you can swim faster than that"

With the main aim IMUK 2019 I may be able to get down from 70 mins to 65 64? Mins but that's a small gain with a lot of effort compared to what I feel I could take off the bike.

Let's hope for a nice, wind free day next Sunday.
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
For Deva Oly in 10 days, I am going to make a conscious effort to let people shoot off and try and swim my own race. That way I can try and hold my pace, like I can in the pool when I do long TTs, compared to these last two races where I have slowly ground to a halt.


The problem you are going to have is everyone else goes off fast and slows, you are going to have to battle through a lot of bodies if you swim even pace. Also, going off fast gives you the opportunity to find fast feet to draft, starting slow you are not going to get that.

I'm no swim coach, but if a fast start is impacting your swim times, then training to cope with a fast start would seem to be the best fix, rather than going off slow and getting yourself stuck behind the pack.
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz
I get the logic....

I was lucky enough to find some feet at Chester Olympic a few years ago, I swam from 50 Ms to the end behind two guys who seemed stuck together laterally.....!?

I was fuming and needed a 28 min swim to get my 2:10 goal off to a flyer... it felt #@?# slow.... I got out expecting 31+....... 26:18 my mate shouted as I ran up the hill.....I guess drafting is just luck mostly.

If I go hard from the gun, I blow up badly, I have tried to train for this but I can't master it.

I start slow and as you say when a shifter comes past I try and hold his wake, doesn't always work but it's that or just swimming by myself, which is fine for 70.3 or further.
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