Tri Talk HomepageTri Talk EventsTri Talk ForumsBlogsTri Talk TrainingTri TradeTriPlayerWikiTeam Tri Talk
Swimming; drinking not breathing

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Swimming; drinking not breathing Reply with quote

Did the Outlaw half yesterday, got a decant result and an 8 min PB. That was despite the swim though which was one of my worst. I'm not the best swimmer but am at least MOP, in a calm OW lake I can hold my own, I really struggle though more than most when the water is choppy, if when I go to breath a rough splash hits my mouth I can't help but drink it. That often means resorting to breaststroke while I catch my breath again as you can't drink and breath together.
When I tell my friends this they don't understand why I cant just not breath in that instance and spit out the water? I don't know but I can't.
Is there known techniques for this that any one knows about that I can work on?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
Posts: 2687
Location: Eating a Yorkie

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm mostly impressed you drank water from HPP rowing lake and still here to tell the story...

Can you train missing a breath and use that extra time to sort yourself out - and teach yourself not to swallow? I remember when I did Outlaw (full) I missed a fair few breaths due to biff.

Sounds more like a bad reflex/habit so possibly something you can work on mentally, i.e. out of the water.
_________________
Where the mind goes the body follows.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 2455
Location: rural Zuzzex

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it maybe down to lack of swim experience/practice? when I first started triathlon I would also swallow a lot of water as I hadn't mastered the art of keeping the oesophagus closed when breathing, or spitting out. over the years this has improved a lot and I now rarely swallow even in very choppy sea water.

answer - swim more... Wink
_________________
And the lord said unto John; "come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
awildt




Joined: 08 Apr 2011
Posts: 654
Location: sunny (!) NW

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the above - swim more.

Learning that breathing out underwater creates a bit of a film over your mouth so you're never going to swallow at that stage and then learning to tilt your head and use the pocket of air created under your arm for breathing in without taking water. That's why arms are considerably slower than legs in swimming because there is a lot of technique.

Breathing with your eyes "looking" up rather than down means your mouth is in the line of fire of all the water you're swimming into. Tucking your chin into your armpit puts the top of your head in the way of all the incoming waves.

YouTube and practice. ANd no matter how much you swim you still occasionally get a mouthful. Realising that a single mouthful won't make you drown is also part of reducing how much it delays you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you train missing a breath and use that extra time to sort yourself out - and teach yourself not to swallow? I remember when I did Outlaw (full) I missed a fair few breaths due to biff.

I don't have a problem holing my breath, I could breath every 5 strokes if I needed to. The problem is when I go to breath I I get water I can't prevent myself from drinking it & that action stops you breathing and I then get 'desperate' for a breath'.

mastered the art of keeping the oesophagus closed when breathing
This sounds like what I need, can it be learnt out of the water?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2466
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doca wrote:
Can you train missing a breath and use that extra time to sort yourself out - and teach yourself not to swallow? I remember when I did Outlaw (full) I missed a fair few breaths due to biff.

I don't have a problem holing my breath, I could breath every 5 strokes if I needed to. The problem is when I go to breath I I get water I can't prevent myself from drinking it & that action stops you breathing and I then get 'desperate' for a breath'.

mastered the art of keeping the oesophagus closed when breathing
This sounds like what I need, can it be learnt out of the water?


Youíre always going to drink some water. People who believe that no water goes into them on the swim are naive or using a canoe!

Open water swimming means getting an unexpected mouthful of water instead of air at any given moment - it might be a wave or a splash, at least it isnít a fist is the way I see it.

The only problem I see is your need to break stroke.

With confidence in your ability to not drown, you can just swallow it and roll to take a breath on the other side on the other side in very next stroke. You can push the water out of your mouth underwater, but this might interfere with trying to get air on the next opportunity. I usually do two smaller catch up breaths to avoid spluttering to a halt.
_________________
Iron Ď17 16h11, '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Swimming; drinking not breathing Reply with quote

Doca wrote:
Did the Outlaw half yesterday, got a decant result and an 8 min PB. That was despite the swim though which was one of my worst. I'm not the best swimmer but am at least MOP, in a calm OW lake I can hold my own, I really struggle though more than most when the water is choppy, if when I go to breath a rough splash hits my mouth I can't help but drink it. That often means resorting to breaststroke while I catch my breath again as you can't drink and breath together.
When I tell my friends this they don't understand why I cant just not breath in that instance and spit out the water? I don't know but I can't.
Is there known techniques for this that any one knows about that I can work on?


Do you have a problem 'swallowing air' when swimming normally (normally manifests itself in a painful stomach and a lot of wind)?

If so, or even try it anyway, try to breath by just opening your mouth rather than purposefully drawing in air.

If you can do this then when you get a mouthful of water in the swim it will stay in your mouth and you can blow/spit it out, rather than heading down the throat and leading to coughing/bluh/gasping/whatever.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 2455
Location: rural Zuzzex

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Youíre always going to drink some water. People who believe that no water goes into them on the swim are naive or using a canoe!


I'd disagree - I might get some water in my mouth which I spit out when I breath out, but I can go a whole swim without swallowing any - and you'd know if you'd swallowed any in the sea! sure, the odd gulp sneaks in if I get my timing wrong or get biffed heavily in a mass swim but that's not very common
_________________
And the lord said unto John; "come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: Swimming; drinking not breathing Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:
Doca wrote:
Did the Outlaw half yesterday, got a decant result and an 8 min PB. That was despite the swim though which was one of my worst. I'm not the best swimmer but am at least MOP, in a calm OW lake I can hold my own, I really struggle though more than most when the water is choppy, if when I go to breath a rough splash hits my mouth I can't help but drink it. That often means resorting to breaststroke while I catch my breath again as you can't drink and breath together.
When I tell my friends this they don't understand why I cant just not breath in that instance and spit out the water? I don't know but I can't.
Is there known techniques for this that any one knows about that I can work on?


Do you have a problem 'swallowing air' when swimming normally (normally manifests itself in a painful stomach and a lot of wind)?

If so, or even try it anyway, try to breath by just opening your mouth rather than purposefully drawing in air.

If you can do this then when you get a mouthful of water in the swim it will stay in your mouth and you can blow/spit it out, rather than heading down the throat and leading to coughing/bluh/gasping/whatever.


Thanks for the reply tuckandgo.
I don't think I swallow air, never had a painful stomach A couple of farts on a long OW swim but certainly not every time.

If so, or even try it anyway, try to breath by just opening your mouth rather than purposefully drawing in air.

Can you elaborate on this, on not really sure what you mean?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 352

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Swimming; drinking not breathing Reply with quote

Doca wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:
Doca wrote:
Did the Outlaw half yesterday, got a decant result and an 8 min PB. That was despite the swim though which was one of my worst. I'm not the best swimmer but am at least MOP, in a calm OW lake I can hold my own, I really struggle though more than most when the water is choppy, if when I go to breath a rough splash hits my mouth I can't help but drink it. That often means resorting to breaststroke while I catch my breath again as you can't drink and breath together.
When I tell my friends this they don't understand why I cant just not breath in that instance and spit out the water? I don't know but I can't.
Is there known techniques for this that any one knows about that I can work on?


Do you have a problem 'swallowing air' when swimming normally (normally manifests itself in a painful stomach and a lot of wind)?

If so, or even try it anyway, try to breath by just opening your mouth rather than purposefully drawing in air.

If you can do this then when you get a mouthful of water in the swim it will stay in your mouth and you can blow/spit it out, rather than heading down the throat and leading to coughing/bluh/gasping/whatever.


Thanks for the reply tuckandgo.
I don't think I swallow air, never had a painful stomach A couple of farts on a long OW swim but certainly not every time.

If so, or even try it anyway, try to breath by just opening your mouth rather than purposefully drawing in air.

Can you elaborate on this, on not really sure what you mean?



Hmmm, perhaps (that I can think of) the best way to get the feeling is to do the exercise where you breath out fully (fully!) so you sink to the bottom of the pool - best to do in the shallow end - then when you come up for air and open your mouth you'll find you take a deep breath without consciously 'breathing in'.

You are trying to allow your lungs to breath at their 'natural rate' for the level of exertion, rather than trying to make them work faster than they are (they will do it perfectly well of their own accord)

I'd never really thought about it but I guess you are just relaxing the diaphragm, allowing the lungs to open, rather than sucking air in. The air pressure differential will fill your lungs with air faster than you could ever 'suck it'.

Hope that's some help. It's something I struggled with when I started swimming - I would try and force my breathing and it caused all sorts of problem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: Swimming; drinking not breathing Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:
Doca wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:
Doca wrote:
Did the Outlaw half yesterday, got a decant result and an 8 min PB. That was despite the swim though which was one of my worst. I'm not the best swimmer but am at least MOP, in a calm OW lake I can hold my own, I really struggle though more than most when the water is choppy, if when I go to breath a rough splash hits my mouth I can't help but drink it. That often means resorting to breaststroke while I catch my breath again as you can't drink and breath together.
When I tell my friends this they don't understand why I cant just not breath in that instance and spit out the water? I don't know but I can't.
Is there known techniques for this that any one knows about that I can work on?


Do you have a problem 'swallowing air' when swimming normally (normally manifests itself in a painful stomach and a lot of wind)?

If so, or even try it anyway, try to breath by just opening your mouth rather than purposefully drawing in air.

If you can do this then when you get a mouthful of water in the swim it will stay in your mouth and you can blow/spit it out, rather than heading down the throat and leading to coughing/bluh/gasping/whatever.


Thanks for the reply tuckandgo.
I don't think I swallow air, never had a painful stomach A couple of farts on a long OW swim but certainly not every time.

If so, or even try it anyway, try to breath by just opening your mouth rather than purposefully drawing in air.

Can you elaborate on this, on not really sure what you mean?



Hmmm, perhaps (that I can think of) the best way to get the feeling is to do the exercise where you breath out fully (fully!) so you sink to the bottom of the pool - best to do in the shallow end - then when you come up for air and open your mouth you'll find you take a deep breath without consciously 'breathing in'.

You are trying to allow your lungs to breath at their 'natural rate' for the level of exertion, rather than trying to make them work faster than they are (they will do it perfectly well of their own accord)

I'd never really thought about it but I guess you are just relaxing the diaphragm, allowing the lungs to open, rather than sucking air in. The air pressure differential will fill your lungs with air faster than you could ever 'suck it'.

Hope that's some help. It's something I struggled with when I started swimming - I would try and force my breathing and it caused all sorts of problem.


Ok thanks, something to try.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 2455
Location: rural Zuzzex

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

another thought - get some 1 to 1 swimming lessons to get some coaching on how to breath correctly. there are various drills that can be used that will help you develop better breathing techniques so you don't end up swallowing loads.

or check out some YouTube videos
_________________
And the lord said unto John; "come forth and receive eternal life." But John came fifth and won a toaster.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Young21M




Joined: 25 May 2018
Posts: 5
Location: SE Asia, UK

PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of practice man. I still struggle sometimes but getting better now. Smile
Keep it up!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iaincognito




Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you breathing bilaterally or just to one side?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iaincognito wrote:
Are you breathing bilaterally or just to one side?


I am breathing bilaterally. I'm quite comfortable breathing both sides and in a pool I breathe whenever I feel the need to after 2,3 or oven 4 strokes. It is in choppy water where I have the problem.

fat buddha wrote:
get some 1 to 1 swimming lessons to get some coaching on how to breath correctly


I've had a number of 1-1 swimming lessons with a TI coach, they have never mentioned any specific breathing technique other than that I often breathe a little late in the cycle. Perhaps something to discuss with them next time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> General All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1
  Share
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Home | About TT | Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions | Advertising | Contact TT
Copyright ©2003-2015 TriTalk®.co.uk. All rights reserved.