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Bike fit options - what are they worth?
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
Hmm, what are they worth...well the problem with this cost/benefit calculation is that the outcome of the fitting session is not the benefit, the fitting session is just step 1, then your bike has to be setup which may not exactly match, and then you have to train the position and race it to actually see what the benefit has been - the improved race outcome.

Certainly my £200 guru based fit was higher quality, but my bike is unable to accept the pad width recommended, and on a good day Iíd say 50% of my race was in aero, and all three of my race results in 2017 were worse than 2018. Largely due to overtraining it seems.

So how do I perform the cost/benefit of that fitting session? Iím not criticising the fitter, but I canít see a measurable value for benefit from the £200 spent.


As for training the position, that's true of any position. I wouldn't personally think a tweak to your aero position needs that much adaption, compared to say getting a TT bike for the first time and not being able to hold aero at all for prolonged periods. In your example, you say a "good day" is only 50% aero? That's a really low percentage, no?


50% seems very low, apparently a TT bike in non aero position is aerodynamically less efficient than a good setup on a road bike.

Unless I am cycling up a long gradient above 4% or cycling down a technical descent I am in Aero position - so in a HIM or IM, probably 80%+ of my time is aero position. Comfort is therefore really important

I find holding Aero position for a prolonged period is much harder on the Turbo Trainer, so it is a really effective way to get used to it
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
I find holding Aero position for a prolonged period is much harder on the Turbo Trainer, so it is a really effective way to get used to it


That's because there's no let-up on the trainer. On the road, you get those momentary reliefs like cornering or accelerations out of the saddle.
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awildt




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also getting a bike fit isn't about getting the most aerodynamic position. It's about getting the right position for YOU. Unless you've got the flexibility of a pro that does yoga everyday and tons of supplementary strengthening exercises you won't achieve a Bradley Wiggins position.

A bike fitter should be assessing your flexibility before getting on a bike/jig to understand what limits they can push.

As Jorgan points out, yes you can go more aero but he's getting old. Razz
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mattsurf




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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



I think I could also go lower, but I can maintain this position for a long time
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2563
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
stenard wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
Hmm, what are they worth...well the problem with this cost/benefit calculation is that the outcome of the fitting session is not the benefit, the fitting session is just step 1, then your bike has to be setup which may not exactly match, and then you have to train the position and race it to actually see what the benefit has been - the improved race outcome.

Certainly my £200 guru based fit was higher quality, but my bike is unable to accept the pad width recommended, and on a good day Iíd say 50% of my race was in aero, and all three of my race results in 2017 were worse than 2018. Largely due to overtraining it seems.

So how do I perform the cost/benefit of that fitting session? Iím not criticising the fitter, but I canít see a measurable value for benefit from the £200 spent.


As for training the position, that's true of any position. I wouldn't personally think a tweak to your aero position needs that much adaption, compared to say getting a TT bike for the first time and not being able to hold aero at all for prolonged periods. In your example, you say a "good day" is only 50% aero? That's a really low percentage, no?


50% seems very low, apparently a TT bike in non aero position is aerodynamically less efficient than a good setup on a road bike.

Unless I am cycling up a long gradient above 4% or cycling down a technical descent I am in Aero position - so in a HIM or IM, probably 80%+ of my time is aero position. Comfort is therefore really important

I find holding Aero position for a prolonged period is much harder on the Turbo Trainer, so it is a really effective way to get used to it


Sure, but my point is that itís not easy - perhaps not even possible - to do cost/benefit analysis.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:


I think I could also go lower, but I can maintain this position for a long time


Main gain you could make would be to lower your head slightly, and get a more aero helmet that 'mates' with your back. Dare I say it - see my picture, and compare.
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mattsurf




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:


Main gain you could make would be to lower your head slightly, and get a more aero helmet that 'mates' with your back. Dare I say it - see my picture, and compare.


I noticed your excellent head position. I have an aero helmet with a longer tail, however, I really struggle to keep the tail down close to my back on longer rides, so it actually creates more drag.

The helmet that I am using in the picture is the new Giro Vanquish, which is supposed to me more Aero that the Giro Air Attack, but less aero than the Aerohead (which is TT specific with no ventilation)

I would like to think that in the picture I raised my head slightly in response to the sudden rain shower, which lasted no more than 2 minutes, but was pretty heavy.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ The good old Giro Advantage 2 is still a redoubtable lid, despite what Giro's marketing might tell you, to get you to buy their newer helmets Rolling Eyes IIRC, Daniela Ryf still uses it, and so have some pros with no helmet sponsor (Maik Twelsiek springs to mind).
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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Location: Zug, Switzerland

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
^^ The good old Giro Advantage 2 is still a redoubtable lid, despite what Giro's marketing might tell you, to get you to buy their newer helmets Rolling Eyes IIRC, Daniela Ryf still uses it, and so have some pros with no helmet sponsor (Maik Twelsiek springs to mind).


I'm a sucker for marketing, and fully aware that you can prove whatever you want with statistics. Helmet does feel nice and Visor much better than on my lazer
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Jgav




Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never had a bike fit but have been thinking about it for a while. I'm on a road bike with some cheap clip ons (used them in my last race for the first time). Anyone have experience with Cadence Performance? I live near the Giant shop in Radlett.

Best photo I have (yes I'm too cheap to buy them)

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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been a while since i did any real cycling, let alone getting into an aero position...

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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocking eJC!
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Shocking eJC!


1st in cat above and 1st overall below although i had to use wide elbows on the finishing sprint....

now long overdue retirement has kicked in...
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