Tri Talk HomepageTri Talk EventsTri Talk ForumsBlogsTri Talk TrainingTri TradeTriPlayerWikiTeam Tri Talk
Salt Tabs
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> General
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:

I'm amazed (with respect) that you or anyone, thinks that solid nutrition is the way to go. Energy drink/mix/whatever you want to call it/ (as it should have electrolytes in it,) should be your base energy provider. Then top up with gels and solid food as you need/enjoy.

You need a lot more than carbs and water to keep going on a 4hr+ event, I thought that was general knowledge.

I would imagine that an ironman on water and energy bars only would a recipe for disaster.


Well I definitely did, at least for the bike anyhow. Apparently Craig Alexander uses a bar based nutrition strategy on the bike also & it works for him. I liked the simplicity of one bar every 45 mins and getting the right amount of calories.
It will be Tailwind next time though which is basically dextrose & salt. What can be the difference to bars other than being more difficult to digest & release the calories from?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 378

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doca wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:

I'm amazed (with respect) that you or anyone, thinks that solid nutrition is the way to go. Energy drink/mix/whatever you want to call it/ (as it should have electrolytes in it,) should be your base energy provider. Then top up with gels and solid food as you need/enjoy.

You need a lot more than carbs and water to keep going on a 4hr+ event, I thought that was general knowledge.

I would imagine that an ironman on water and energy bars only would a recipe for disaster.


Well I definitely did, at least for the bike anyhow. Apparently Craig Alexander uses a bar based nutrition strategy on the bike also & it works for him. I liked the simplicity of one bar every 45 mins and getting the right amount of calories.
It will be Tailwind next time though which is basically dextrose & salt. What can be the difference to bars other than being more difficult to digest & release the calories from?


a good drink will have the full spectrum of electrolytes needed (not just sodium). I guess it doesn't matter if it is liquid or solid, you need these as well as carbs (in whatever form.) So what I am really saying is make sure you have those covered, then take extra carbs in whatever form you want.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sully




Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 426
Location: Manchester (for 7+ years) ... far away from sunny Qatar

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I used to live abroad in a hot country, I used Salt stick capsules (even bought the dispenser tube, but never used it effectively ) during training & ORS (oral rehydration salts : mix with 1L water) during the hot months. I could definitely notice a difference if I didn't take any salts
Started with my energy dropping, often but not always followed by leg cramps, with headaches a few hours after.
The rest of the year I'd use Nuun or Zym, when it was cooler. Now in the UK I just use Nuun , Zero etc.
But I am a heavy sweater.... never had a sweat test but was always sweatier than training buddies doing similar training.
Bit like with all nutrition, horses for courses, try it in training.
_________________
2010 July: IM CH 14:49. 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, AbuDhabi Short. 2014 Outlaw 13:43 Smile
2015 Abu Dhabi Maxi, Doha Pearl Oly, Tameside XL
2016 Tour of Tameside, Ripon Oly 2017 Windy Hill Fell, Saddlesworth Tri, Tour of Tameside, Ripon Oly, Zurich 5150
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting podcast on sweat & salt from the Flo guys:

https://soundcloud.com/user-198147103/faster-podcast-by-flo-s1e7-how-analyzing-your-sweat-can-make-you-faster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
grunta




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 375
Location: YORKSHIRE

PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit late in on this . Precision Hydration talk a lot of logic. Use their stuff.My own view is that cramp is( partially) related to stress . Can do a 120k training bike no probs yet when I raced Worlds aquabike in DK ..cramped ont bike AND in the 3km swim !

Read that RENNIES are the panacea for cramp - yes/ no ??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17208
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
I've bought some salt sticks, though the weather looks like it's dropping off now


You wrote that on 25th May...how wrong you were Very Happy Cool
_________________
26 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17208
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:

I thought tailwind might be a secret recipe, but it sounds like it's just a variation on an energy drink.

I'm amazed (with respect) that you or anyone, thinks that solid nutrition is the way to go. Energy drink/mix/whatever you want to call it/ (as it should have electrolytes in it,) should be your base energy provider. Then top up with gels and solid food as you need/enjoy.


Ironically, Tailwind is the antitheses of a secret recipe. People rave on about it especially on FB (IMJ) - but it is literally just powdered dextrose & table sugar (sucrose) with sea salt added; you could make it at home in vast quantities for a few quid.

I have always eaten solid food as much as possible on the bike (HIM/IM) and if I'm not able to take-in solid food over those distances - it's an indication that I'm going too hard on the bike. Also, there's only so much fluid you can and should be consuming; if you're quaffing huge quantities of watery 'Iso' drink at an event on a hot day, there's the danger of hyponatremia. Solid food also delivers its energy more slowly, which isn't as bad thing if you're going long.
_________________
26 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1585
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
gingerbongo wrote:
I've bought some salt sticks, though the weather looks like it's dropping off now


You wrote that on 25th May...how wrong you were Very Happy Cool


Well it rained all weekend! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17208
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

grunta wrote:
My own view is that cramp is( partially) related to stress . Can do a 120k training bike no probs yet when I raced Worlds aquabike in DK ..cramped ont bike AND in the 3km swim !


Funny how cramp usually only happens in races isn't it! Definitely related to muscular stress/fatigue i.e. when you push yourself harder/longer than in training.
_________________
26 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17208
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
gingerbongo wrote:
I've bought some salt sticks, though the weather looks like it's dropping off now


You wrote that on 25th May...how wrong you were Very Happy Cool


Well it rained all weekend! Very Happy


The hot weather started when I went back to work in early June Rolling Eyes I remember that B/H weekend - we were in a yurt and it pi$$ed down the Sunday morning, then beautiful in the afternoon (we went canoeing).
_________________
26 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:

I thought tailwind might be a secret recipe, but it sounds like it's just a variation on an energy drink.

I'm amazed (with respect) that you or anyone, thinks that solid nutrition is the way to go. Energy drink/mix/whatever you want to call it/ (as it should have electrolytes in it,) should be your base energy provider. Then top up with gels and solid food as you need/enjoy.


Ironically, Tailwind is the antitheses of a secret recipe. People rave on about it especially on FB (IMJ) - but it is literally just powdered dextrose & table sugar (sucrose) with sea salt added; you could make it at home in vast quantities for a few quid.

I have always eaten solid food as much as possible on the bike (HIM/IM) and if I'm not able to take-in solid food over those distances - it's an indication that I'm going too hard on the bike. Also, there's only so much fluid you can and should be consuming; if you're quaffing huge quantities of watery 'Iso' drink at an event on a hot day, there's the danger of hyponatremia. Solid food also delivers its energy more slowly, which isn't as bad thing if you're going long.


Yes Tailwind is very basic in it's ingredients and I am going to experiment making my own. I have already stated training with a DIY low carb mix but with the salt quantities that is in Tailwind which is quite a lot (3g pink salt/L) and I suspect much more than most folks are using & I'm getting good results with that.

I disagree with your comments on solid food, I was taking solid food quite happily and having 45g carbs every 45-60 mins on the bike. I had no stomach issues & believed all was great and I had the nutrition thing down pat. However the difference fueling with Tailwind on the bike made to my run is huge. I think you wouldn't know if it worked better for you unless you tried it. My basic view at the moment is that sipping a calorific drink makes it much easier for the stomach to absorb the calories than eating solid food. I think the salt probably pays a part too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 17208
Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doca wrote:
I disagree with your comments on solid food, I was taking solid food quite happily and having 45g carbs every 45-60 mins on the bike. I had no stomach issues & believed all was great and I had the nutrition thing down pat. However the difference fueling with Tailwind on the bike made to my run is huge. I think you wouldn't know if it worked better for you unless you tried it. My basic view at the moment is that sipping a calorific drink makes it much easier for the stomach to absorb the calories than eating solid food. I think the salt probably pays a part too.


The trouble with relying on drink for your calories, is that unless you take everything you need with you, then how can you guarantee that on-course drinks will give you what you need? Event drinks are highly variable, normally weak, and rarely the same at each aid station even.

Are you talking about doing an Ironman on fluids alone here, and taking all your own fluids?
_________________
26 Years since it all began....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Doca wrote:
I disagree with your comments on solid food, I was taking solid food quite happily and having 45g carbs every 45-60 mins on the bike. I had no stomach issues & believed all was great and I had the nutrition thing down pat. However the difference fueling with Tailwind on the bike made to my run is huge. I think you wouldn't know if it worked better for you unless you tried it. My basic view at the moment is that sipping a calorific drink makes it much easier for the stomach to absorb the calories than eating solid food. I think the salt probably pays a part too.


The trouble with relying on drink for your calories, is that unless you take everything you need with you, then how can you guarantee that on-course drinks will give you what you need? Event drinks are highly variable, normally weak, and rarely the same at each aid station even.

Are you talking about doing an Ironman on fluids alone here, and taking all your own fluids?


I don't know the exact details of the special needs at Wales but I will start with 2 full bottles and hopefully pick up 2 more at special needs. If the special needs doesn't work out I will take Tailwind stick packs & mix with plain water on the course.
Wales will be my first full IM without solid food, I will let you know how it goes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TRO Saracen




Joined: 18 Aug 2010
Posts: 1175

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[/quote]

I don't know the exact details of the special needs at Wales but I will start with 2 full bottles and hopefully pick up 2 more at special needs. If the special needs doesn't work out I will take Tailwind stick packs & mix with plain water on the course.
Wales will be my first full IM without solid food, I will let you know how it goes.[/quote]

I do have some solids (a bento box full - dates and a couple of bars) but all my 'liquid' calories will be in a single concentrated bottle (marked up for each 'hour') then all I have to drink is drink water and replace the plain water bottle as it empties.
_________________
2018: IM Wales and Florida. Let the games begin.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TriTalk.co.uk Forum Index -> General All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2
  Share
 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum





Home | About TT | Privacy Policy | Terms and Conditions | Advertising | Contact TT
Copyright ©2003-2015 TriTalk®.co.uk. All rights reserved.