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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 8348
Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Race1+ wrote:
I'm not Sagan, but to me the sketchy decent near there is Pebble Hill Road. Which is horrible if its raining!

(The one that goes down towards Betchworth Train Station from the bottom of Box Hill. )


Nope, although that would be a safe descent on a closed road, but no chance of the police agreeing to it on an open, it's an easy 70odd km corner! Juniper is the Box Hill descent you use, it's very rough with pretty sharp hedgerow bends, so you can end up coming round a corner into something, it really depends how fast you ride it, like most things.
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Whisk




Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 8653
Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Race1+ wrote:
Whisk wrote:

They stack you bumper to bumper in the car park...



How am I going to get the bike in or out of the car if I cant get the bloody tailgate up? Stand on the bonnet of the car behind? Confused


Bumper to bumper might be a slight exaggeration as you should have enough space to get your bike out of your car, but you certainly won't be able to get out of the car park until the cars around you have moved.
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ed_m




Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 8171
Location: coventry

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
Race1+ wrote:
I'm not Sagan, but to me the sketchy decent near there is Pebble Hill Road. Which is horrible if its raining!

(The one that goes down towards Betchworth Train Station from the bottom of Box Hill. )


Nope, although that would be a safe descent on a closed road, but no chance of the police agreeing to it on an open, it's an easy 70odd km corner! Juniper is the Box Hill descent you use, it's very rough with pretty sharp hedgerow bends, so you can end up coming round a corner into something, it really depends how fast you ride it, like most things.


It's sketchy more due to narrowness... there are a few tighter curves as you come off the common and the hard left into the valley but after that it's narrow and fairly blind.
Expect someone coming past on tt bars on the wrong side of the road round a blind left hander. Rolling Eyes

Was sketchy enough when I did It several years ago before this sh!t all got more popular... these days I shudder to think !
It's not like human race have a reputation to regain now is it Wink

Wonder if grumpy is still about...
http://www.tritalk.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=96945
http://www.fed-up-on-box-hill.co.uk/
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 422

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in.

Desperately unfit and never done a duathlon before. Something tells me I'm either going to go slowly or it's going to get messy.

Still 50/50 on TT or RB. If it was (is) dry and closed roads it would be a no brainer TT for me but otherwise it needs to be more considered.

Hadn't even looked at the course (a friend entered me) but now I have it really is a running race with a bit of a bike in the middle. Rolling Eyes
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PhilleusPhogg




Joined: 11 May 2015
Posts: 299

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:
I'm in.
Still 50/50 on TT or RB. If it was (is) dry and closed roads it would be a no brainer TT for me but otherwise it needs to be more considered.


I did a couple of test runs last year beforehand trying out RB and TT for similar power outputs over 3 laps, and for me at least, the TT came out a clear winner. Used it in the race despite it being wet, although I went with the training wheels in the end IIRC for better breaking.

The descent isn't overly technical really, the limiting factor is more how willing you are to take risks overtaking people round blind bends on a (not closed) narrow road rather than road vs tt, It can get congested, particularly if you're lapping people on the 2/3 laps. Either way, there's certainly a fair amount of time to be gained on the top section by being aero.

I actually made the decision based on which one I found more comfortable; 3 laps on the RB trying to be aero killed my arms!
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 422

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilleusPhogg wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:
I'm in.
Still 50/50 on TT or RB. If it was (is) dry and closed roads it would be a no brainer TT for me but otherwise it needs to be more considered.


I did a couple of test runs last year beforehand trying out RB and TT for similar power outputs over 3 laps, and for me at least, the TT came out a clear winner. Used it in the race despite it being wet, although I went with the training wheels in the end IIRC for better breaking.

The descent isn't overly technical really, the limiting factor is more how willing you are to take risks overtaking people round blind bends on a (not closed) narrow road rather than road vs tt, It can get congested, particularly if you're lapping people on the 2/3 laps. Either way, there's certainly a fair amount of time to be gained on the top section by being aero.

I actually made the decision based on which one I found more comfortable; 3 laps on the RB trying to be aero killed my arms!


Thank you.
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Race1+




Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that's a hard race! Shocked Probably the hardest I've ever done!

As said by someone else. It's a runners race. And I aint no runner! Very Happy

Took the first lap steady, (stopped for a wee 2/3rd round) Tried to run the zig Zag but had a couple of very short walks. Id already been passed by the first 10-20 fast guys on their bikes! I should have brought my Garmin to pace from.

Bike was OK, though I was worried about the 11am cut off, so overbiked a bit the last lap. Rolled into T2 at 11:05, but they let me carry on.

Paid for the overbiking Laughing and ran/walked the second 8 miles. 12 mins slower than first run.

Someone said you tend to take whatever your stand alone marathon time is! I was 5 mins slower than that. So it's a good time indicator.

I may well be back next year!


Oh, and if the (probably ex Army PT) guy is reading this. Thanks for the screaming encouragement every lap. Made me laugh every time! Cool
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 422

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Race1+ wrote:
Well that's a hard race! Shocked Probably the hardest I've ever done!




Oh, and if the (probably ex Army PT) guy is reading this. Thanks for the screaming encouragement every lap. Made me laugh every time! Cool


He was comedy. I thought he was cheering for a specific person then I realised the commentary never stopped......!

Also found it a very tough day although having been ill my main aim was pacing and not falling apart and I got my bike lap times within 30 seconds of each other and my runs were only 2 mins apart.

My big complaint was the back half of the bike course. To 'race it' was absurdly dangerous. I have a reputation locally as a very quick descender (who is perhaps more risky than some) and I was riding on eggshells. A combination of steep corners, damp roads, leaves, wobbly fast runners who aren't used to riding and, most importantly, narrow open roads, was just simply dangerous unless you were willing to coast in line.

Sure, you could ride carefully, but that's not really racing. And let's not mention getting stuck behind cars who were stuck behind slow local cyclists. Or the two cars that couldn't get past each other on the narrow line and brought the whole race to a complete halt.

Amazed at how fast the runners run (translation ... amazed how #@?# I am). I was 29th in my AG. In my last IM (wales so not an easy ride) I was 27th in my AG.........

Balls well and truly busted.
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ed_m




Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 8171
Location: coventry

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:

My big complaint was the back half of the bike course. To 'race it' was absurdly dangerous. I have a reputation locally as a very quick descender (who is perhaps more risky than some) and I was riding on eggshells. A combination of steep corners, damp roads, leaves, wobbly fast runners who aren't used to riding and, most importantly, narrow open roads, was just simply dangerous unless you were willing to coast in line.

Sure, you could ride carefully, but that's not really racing. And let's not mention getting stuck behind cars who were stuck behind slow local cyclists. Or the two cars that couldn't get past each other on the narrow line and brought the whole race to a complete halt.



Always amazed that people are surprised by this... tis human race after all.. read any race report or thread and you'll see the same comments time & time again.
This event always runs on pure luck.
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 422

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ed_m wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:

My big complaint was the back half of the bike course. To 'race it' was absurdly dangerous. I have a reputation locally as a very quick descender (who is perhaps more risky than some) and I was riding on eggshells. A combination of steep corners, damp roads, leaves, wobbly fast runners who aren't used to riding and, most importantly, narrow open roads, was just simply dangerous unless you were willing to coast in line.

Sure, you could ride carefully, but that's not really racing. And let's not mention getting stuck behind cars who were stuck behind slow local cyclists. Or the two cars that couldn't get past each other on the narrow line and brought the whole race to a complete halt.





Always amazed that people are surprised by this... tis human race after all.. read any race report or thread and you'll see the same comments time & time again.
This event always runs on pure luck.


Fair enough. It really does.
I guess with Ballbuster running for so many years I hoped for better.
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Race1+




Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:


My big complaint was the back half of the bike course. To 'race it' was absurdly dangerous. I have a reputation locally as a very quick descender (who is perhaps more risky than some) and I was riding on eggshells. A combination of steep corners, damp roads, leaves, wobbly fast runners who aren't used to riding and, most importantly, narrow open roads, was just simply dangerous unless you were willing to coast in line.

Sure, you could ride carefully, but that's not really racing. And let's not mention getting stuck behind cars who were stuck behind slow local cyclists. Or the two cars that couldn't get past each other on the narrow line and brought the whole race to a complete halt.



I consider myself decent enough on the bike, but I agree with the comments on road surface. But same for everyone I guess.

I came across the ambulance with 3-4 bikes stopped on my 3rd bike lap. So clearly there is an issue to be looked at. Regarding local traffic, short of making Leach and Headley Lane one way for the morning I cant think of a solution

I would add that I didn't have any problems personally. So maybe it's "just enough" to be sensible, but a little extra could make a difference

ed_m wrote:

Always amazed that people are surprised by this... tis human race after all.. read any race report or thread and you'll see the same comments time & time again.
This event always runs on pure luck.


Human Race always remind me of Virgin. Run everything on an absolute shoe string to maximise profits. There weren't even any porta loos as far I could see. But then who else aside from IMG Events (Blenheim & London) run tri or duathlons in London and home counties? So they've cornered the market a bit.
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 422

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Race1+ wrote:
tuckandgo wrote:


My big complaint was the back half of the bike course. To 'race it' was absurdly dangerous. I have a reputation locally as a very quick descender (who is perhaps more risky than some) and I was riding on eggshells. A combination of steep corners, damp roads, leaves, wobbly fast runners who aren't used to riding and, most importantly, narrow open roads, was just simply dangerous unless you were willing to coast in line.

Sure, you could ride carefully, but that's not really racing. And let's not mention getting stuck behind cars who were stuck behind slow local cyclists. Or the two cars that couldn't get past each other on the narrow line and brought the whole race to a complete halt.



I consider myself decent enough on the bike, but I agree with the comments on road surface. But same for everyone I guess.

I came across the ambulance with 3-4 bikes stopped on my 3rd bike lap. So clearly there is an issue to be looked at. Regarding local traffic, short of making Leach and Headley Lane one way for the morning I cant think of a solution

I would add that I didn't have any problems personally. So maybe it's "just enough" to be sensible, but a little extra could make a difference

ed_m wrote:

Always amazed that people are surprised by this... tis human race after all.. read any race report or thread and you'll see the same comments time & time again.
This event always runs on pure luck.


Human Race always remind me of Virgin. Run everything on an absolute shoe string to maximise profits. There weren't even any porta loos as far I could see. But then who else aside from IMG Events (Blenheim & London) run tri or duathlons in London and home counties? So they've cornered the market a bit.


To take a big picture perspective there are two problems
1. is that the sharp turns on narrow roads are all left turns. So you are always on the inside (therefore, sharper, slower, less safe) of the corner. I'd rather slide out into a bush or tree than an oncoming car

2. Is that for a lot of the descent the roads are too narrow to overtake safely whilst they are open to traffic.

As rapid overtaking on the 'racing line' is a big boost for me in races, this rather puts a big dampener on things.

It is the same for everybody but only adds further weight to it being a runners event.
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Whisk




Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 8653
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tuckandgo wrote:

To take a big picture perspective there are two problems
1. is that the sharp turns on narrow roads are all left turns. So you are always on the inside (therefore, sharper, slower, less safe) of the corner. I'd rather slide out into a bush or tree than an oncoming car



I don't think any course on open roads would be designed with right turns. It'd just be too difficult to marshal safely.

I think a Sunday morning would probably be quieter than a Saturday because people tend to start their mornings later on a Sunday when the shops open later.

The traffic does seem to be much worse on Lodgebottom Lane than it used to be. A theory for why traffic is getting much worse on a lot of the small lanes around Surrey is the increase in the use of satnavs, which puts people on smaller, more direct lanes when previously they might have stuck to bigger roads.
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Race1+




Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:


I think a Sunday morning would probably be quieter than a Saturday because people tend to start their mornings later on a Sunday when the shops open later.


Not sure tbh

Sundays on Box Hill are normally pretty busy. Conversely, Saturday was pretty quiet. Sure there was a fair few Saturday riders (I saw a lot of Addiscombe CC which suggests it was their normal ride) but no where near the normal levels.

They wont ever pay the fees to close the whole route though. If they wanted to, expect either the race fee to double or entrants to double. And I daresay there aren't that many people who want to enter it anyway.
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JoeNobody




Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 80
Location: Wokingham, Berkshire

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Race1+ wrote:
...who else aside from IMG Events (Blenheim & London) run tri or duathlons in London and home counties?

F3, Votwo, Arctic1?
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