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Referendum 2: The return of the #@?#
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am beginning to despair at « Breaking News » this time from the Independent........ « German MEP's aide photographed holding notes on 'general election' and 'public vote' after Brexit meeting with Theresa May ».

Could be anything from « ain’t going to happen » to « this is the secret planned date ».

I am just a little bemused at how this is breaking news. So the topics may have been discussed. It’s going to be an interesting few months.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so, Brexit can and must be stopped...

...what does Vince Cable not understand???
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
so, Brexit can and must be stopped...

...what does Vince Cable not understand???


No, he is senile. Genuinely, old and unable to cope with not getting his way.

Who GAF what Vince thinks ?
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
so, Brexit can and must be stopped...

...what does Vince Cable not understand???


No, he is senile. Genuinely, old and unable to cope with not getting his way.

Who GAF what Vince thinks ?
Me.

I may not like what they did in government, but if life has taught me anything, it is that - it is only by considering all sides of any issue (or realistically as many as you can) properly, can you make balanced decisions.

There is normally a baby somewhere in the bath water.
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Gus




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
GrahamO wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
so, Brexit can and must be stopped...

...what does Vince Cable not understand???


No, he is senile. Genuinely, old and unable to cope with not getting his way.

Who GAF what Vince thinks ?
Me.

I may not like what they did in government, but if life has taught me anything, it is that - it is only by considering all sides of any issue (or realistically as many as you can) properly, can you make balanced decisions.

There is normally a baby somewhere in the bath water.


i forgot that he was no longer a liberal
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will admit that I am intrigued to find out what is going to happen next, as the pressure mounts to avoid Brexit.

I realise that this is a tremendously serious issue, but it is also fascinating watching all the various forces at work. Disbelief, panic, career enhancement manipulations, business relocations, party squabbles, even how we are apparently « now a nation of remainers » given the demographic changes since the vote. Sort of reminds me of Laurel and Hardy!

Except it’s tremendously serious.

Re Vince, he is no Macron, nor Trump, and he (and the Lib Dem’s for that matter generally) don’t have the « energy connection » to the people that Macron and Trump have. Hence his « movement » will struggle to gain traction. Too much recent bad history from their time in government, that they still haven’t really acknowledged nor apologised for (nice to see the Independent now publish on this. I have been nudging the Lib Dem’s for years over this).
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cable is one of those nice old chaps you meet in the pub who has an opinion on everything and knowledge of actually very little.

You probably wouldn't actually dislike him, but conclude he knows very little and wonder how to managed to survive all these years without actually doing anything useful.

Ah yes, he's a politician who has never had any power, never had any support from anywhere except the echo-box fringe and should be tucked up in bed with a warm cocoa to be kept out of the way of the adults.
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Gus




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
we are apparently « now a nation of remainers » given the demographic changes since the vote.


I keep hearing Remainers claiming this. I've seen a couple of very ropey 'polls' supporting this view but little credible evidence.

I would rather throw a Molotov Cocktail at Parliament then have a second referendum but if they did hold one - and a genuinely binary in/no deal out - and with no more Project Fear shenanigans, it would be very interesting to see the outcome.

I actually suspect it may have swung more towards leave now - no empirical evidence, just gut feeling.
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SGreg




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
we are apparently « now a nation of remainers » given the demographic changes since the vote.


I keep hearing Remainers claiming this. I've seen a couple of very ropey 'polls' supporting this view but little credible evidence.

I would rather throw a Molotov Cocktail at Parliament then have a second referendum but if they did hold one - and a genuinely binary in/no deal out - and with no more Project Fear shenanigans, it would be very interesting to see the outcome.

I actually suspect it may have swung more towards leave now - no empirical evidence, just gut feeling.



I think it's pretty much as before the first referendum, and the result would be very narrow and 90% decided by turnout. From the Poll's I have seen it's pretty much still 50/50

I do not feel a significant shift in sentiment, If there was I would be screaming for a second Referendum (and I do mean significant!), people are allowed to change their minds and we shouldn't be bound to one decision if subsequent evidence shows it was a poor choice (I am not saying that was the case), If the overwhelming sentiment was the Referendum decision was a poor one and should be reversed then of course we should.

I don't get that feeling though if anything all I get is utter Brexit Apathy and Fatigue, I think this might swing it in the Remain's favour, due to moderate Brexiters just not giving a ~#*$, but that is speculation and of course NO way to make important decisions.


Besides, Remember just before the Ref the Feeling was very much Remain was going to win and win easily, If people are feeling a Remain Bias, it could just be a Vocal Minority as before!

As a Remainer, I just want them to get on with it. As it stands a second Ref is Perverse.


Last edited by SGreg on Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
we are apparently « now a nation of remainers » given the demographic changes since the vote.


I keep hearing Remainers claiming this. I've seen a couple of very ropey 'polls' supporting this view but little credible evidence.
Pretty much totally agree with you Gus. I think that the drive is clearly to get the public to think again.

Quote:
I actually suspect it may have swung more towards leave now - no empirical evidence, just gut feeling.
I have zero idea on this. I am just baffled by how this has all been dealt with.

I am sort of shaking my head in disbelief.

It’s going to be an interesting few months.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SGreg wrote:
.


Besides, Remember just before the Ref the Feeling was very much Remain was going to win and win easily, If people are feeling a Remain Bias, it could just be a Vocal Minority as before
Perhaps Cameron should have listened to me! Though to be entirely fair my double prediction (we would vote to leave, but then something would happen which meant it didn’t happen) was made just before the vote, well after he called it.

Just now I think there is a mixture of..

1. We know this is a mistake, but we don’t want to be seen to disobey the people. Hence the obvious seeking of (A) a legal form over substance Brexit, and (B) the media and politicians clearly trying to get people to change their minds.

2. Cameron!

3. Oh how can I enhance my career through this mess.

4. Realising that either way the country is likely going to end up in a weaker position that before, at least short term.

5. Trying to keep the Conservative party in power.



Quote:
As a Remainer, I just want them to get on with it.
So do I. I think that it is a mistake, but it is our mistake. And I would be happy to be proven wrong.

I remain curious of what will happen to actually prevent it.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh the timing, as I was reviewing for spelling errors, this popped up on my screen....

« Rejection of Theresa May's Brexit plan could trigger second referendum, admits Treasury minister
Mel Stride undermines Theresa May's public strategy, by saying: 'We could have a second referendum and we could end up not leaving the EU altogether’ »

Independent
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
« Rejection of Theresa May's Brexit plan could trigger second referendum, admits Treasury minister


The operative word is 'could'. Rejection could mean war against the French, or a collapse in the value of the pomegranate.

When it becomes 'will' then its worth considering and of course, expecting anything except rabid Remain lies, and distortions from the Independent is a bit much.

Its the Daily Mail of the Left, with with a lot less acts and way more distortion.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a second referendum risks a vote for remain followed by years and years of me saying "i told you so"
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