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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1938
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
PCP wrote:
stenard wrote:

As you can see on my PMC, during big blocks of training the TSB (yellow) goes down, as ATL (pink) spikes whilst CTL (blue shaded) climbs more slowly. But during taper, so August onwards into my race, the trend reverses and I hit race day with a significantly positive TSB.


My eyes can't quite see but am I right in thinking you peaked at 110 CTL then tapered to 100? And this was your recent sub 10 effort?

Yeah, not the best of hosted images. Checking, that solid line is 125. I peaked at 126 (3 weeks out from the race) and was 104 the day before race day (per the training peaks numbers). Yes, that was the recent sub10.


Cheers. I've used the TP ATP builder and put in that I want to race at 110 CTL in July. Obviously that is an arbitrary number but I believe if I can get to over 100 I should be in sub 11 for for Bolton.
I just need to build a sensible, sustainable plan around the given weekly TSS numbers now.
What was your average weekly hours and your peak weekly hours?
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1863

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends what period you count.
Per my IM preview blog post, since being coached from November last year, up to the week before the race (41 weeks), I apparently did 445hrs of SBR, so nearly 11hrs per week across that entire period.

I logged most weeks in a bit more detail on the "Training? What Training?" thread, but summarising and looking at the final 7wks of build to my peak week, I did:
15.25hrs, 16.5hrs, 9.5hrs (stag do), 17.25hrs, 16.5hrs, 14.25hrs and 18.5hrs.

18.5 was definitely my highest, and concluded with a diy LCW, with over 11hrs on the Fri/Sat/Sun.
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
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Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Stenard, that’s really interesting. I was guessing at around 8-10 hours a week then 14-20 peak weeks so not far away if I manage to stay consistent with quality sessions.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I maybe need to tweak my threshold for swimming, I reckon it was too low at 1:35 pace. Nudged it down to 1:32, as if I'm swimming reps at 1:35 with the PB & any of the paddles, it's really not a threshold effort.

Interestingly back onto the TSB issue. So Saturday I was at -34 (I did feel drained by Fri), and Sunday it was down to -26...where upon I smashed-out a 30km Z3 effort on the bike, which didn't feel that bad at all (a race pace effort). So it makes me wonder that if my TSB/Form is back above -10 for Sunday I should be fine.
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 400

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
where upon I smashed-out a 30km Z3 effort on the bike, which didn't feel that bad at all (a race pace effort)

Z3 race pace for a sprint? Surely you should be above threshold all the way
Smile
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1863

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I think I maybe need to tweak my threshold for swimming, I reckon it was too low at 1:35 pace. Nudged it down to 1:32, as if I'm swimming reps at 1:35 with the PB & any of the paddles, it's really not a threshold effort.

Interestingly back onto the TSB issue. So Saturday I was at -34 (I did feel drained by Fri), and Sunday it was down to -26...where upon I smashed-out a 30km Z3 effort on the bike, which didn't feel that bad at all (a race pace effort). So it makes me wonder that if my TSB/Form is back above -10 for Sunday I should be fine.

Having it negative is not a bad thing. You generally want it slightly negative if you are progressively ramping up the load.

Training Peaks give a high level summary here: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/applying-the-numbers-part-3-training-stress-balance/
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hammerer
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Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I think I maybe need to tweak my threshold for swimming, I reckon it was too low at 1:35 pace. Nudged it down to 1:32, as if I'm swimming reps at 1:35 with the PB & any of the paddles, it's really not a threshold effort.

Interestingly back onto the TSB issue. So Saturday I was at -34 (I did feel drained by Fri), and Sunday it was down to -26...where upon I smashed-out a 30km Z3 effort on the bike, which didn't feel that bad at all (a race pace effort). So it makes me wonder that if my TSB/Form is back above -10 for Sunday I should be fine.


I always manually work out the swim. treat each section as a different value and add it all together. Calcualtion is on TP website (google swim TSS). If Im kicking I know my approximate threshold speed, same with other strokes. Drills I generally dont include.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
I think I maybe need to tweak my threshold for swimming, I reckon it was too low at 1:35 pace. Nudged it down to 1:32, as if I'm swimming reps at 1:35 with the PB & any of the paddles, it's really not a threshold effort.

Interestingly back onto the TSB issue. So Saturday I was at -34 (I did feel drained by Fri), and Sunday it was down to -26...where upon I smashed-out a 30km Z3 effort on the bike, which didn't feel that bad at all (a race pace effort). So it makes me wonder that if my TSB/Form is back above -10 for Sunday I should be fine.


I always manually work out the swim. treat each section as a different value and add it all together. Calcualtion is on TP website (google swim TSS). If Im kicking I know my approximate threshold speed, same with other strokes. Drills I generally dont include.

I just accept it's likely understating my TSS. Kick, drills, etc, are all at a much slower pace but in some cases, especially my kick, at a much higher RPE than even threshold swimming. I'm knackered after 50m kick for example.

I tend to do a similar amount of drills and other things in a week, on average, so the impact on ramp rates etc should be minimal.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
where upon I smashed-out a 30km Z3 effort on the bike, which didn't feel that bad at all (a race pace effort)

Z3 race pace for a sprint? Surely you should be above threshold all the way
Smile


There's a difference between race pace from my front door, and after a swim and before a run. So HR is Z4 in a race, although the average might not be over threshold (for the bike). That's how I roll.
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Magnacarter




Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies if its teaching grandma to suck eggs, but it might help someone struggling with TP terminology..... what helped me to start with was to follow the somewhat oversimplistic thinking by considering CTL as fitness, and ATL as tiredness, with TSB the difference between the two.... you can raise your TSB by either being fitter, or less tired....of course, its more complicated than that, as TSB alone won’t give you the answer, as you can have a low TSB and still far too tired to race well, but its a good start!
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Poet.




Joined: 06 Aug 2013
Posts: 331

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a quick way to upload planned workouts?

The GUI is a pain in the backside and pretty slow...

...surely coaches just upload a CSV in a pre-defined format?
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Magnacarter




Joined: 07 Jul 2010
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

create them as library workouts, and then, at least on a PC interface, its drag and drop, and you can copy and paste a day or a week at a time.... takes just a few mins to build several months worth if your training is reasonably conistent week in week out.... its less easy on a tablet, epecially the copy and paste, but its still doable.
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