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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Muscle mass Reply with quote

Was on the Boditrax system at the gym yesterday checking my bod fat percentage (yes, still fat) and noticed the other readings, water and muscle and it indicated my ideal muscle mass was a few kilos lower.

I know BIA systems aren't that reliable, but it got me thinking - is there an approximate ideal muscle mass for triathletes?
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Muscle mass Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:



but it got me thinking - is there an approximate ideal muscle mass for triathletes?


as a % of overall mass?

there are guidelines for ideal bodyfat %, certainly...
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PhilleusPhogg




Joined: 11 May 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes - it's between Arnie (circa 1970s) and Posh Spice (circa 2005).
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. You want a cyclists' legs and a freestyle swimmers' upper body; oh hang on, what about the run....Anyway, you don't need big guns or pecs, or indeed huge quads. You want strength & flexibility in your shoulders & back for the swimming and supporting your torso on the aero bars (although your skeleton should do much of this).

If you look at professional triathletes, the Oly dist guys tend to be younger and leaner (skinnier) than the long distance athletes. If you compare someone like Mark Allen or Crowie at their prime vs Brownlee, you can see a difference.

Either way, you'll want your BMI to be well inside the 'green' zone; even though that's a very blunt tool. If you're of a stocky build, then swimming will be harder, as someone who is taller is more evenly 'distributed', and hydrodynamic (long).
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems boditrax thinks there are only three components to the human body, unless it's a coincidence that my bone, muscle and fat add up to 100%.

If I really do have 62.2Kg of muscle, at 173cm, how do I know if I need to gain or lose muscle?

I forget which pro is my height and looked him up, his total weight was around 68Kg to my portly 82kg. Not sure I can get that low just on body fat loss.
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PhilleusPhogg




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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously though, isn't this looking at things the wrong way round?

If you do the right amounts of multi-sport training, and only do S&C for the bits you need, then after a certain amount of time your muscle distribution will tend towards optimum?
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
It seems boditrax thinks there are only three components to the human body, unless it's a coincidence that my bone, muscle and fat add up to 100%.

If I really do have 62.2Kg of muscle, at 173cm, how do I know if I need to gain or lose muscle?

I forget which pro is my height and looked him up, his total weight was around 68Kg to my portly 82kg. Not sure I can get that low just on body fat loss.



until you can maintain performance with a reduction in muscle mass, personally I would concentrate on:

reducing % body fat within sensible limits - both pace and value

improving physiological and biomechanical efficiency

improving technical skill
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Pedro Peru




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting article from Alan Couzens that goes into it. https://www.alancouzens.com/blog/height_weight.html
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Tin Pot




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pedro Peru wrote:
This is an interesting article from Alan Couzens that goes into it. https://www.alancouzens.com/blog/height_weight.html


Interesting article.

Again it predicts a race weight of 64kg, which would mean for me losing about 5kg in muscle mass, to allow for bone mass and a reasonable fat percentage.
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Pedro Peru




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be down to 62kg on AC's calculator. In my late teens and early 20's I boxed at 63.5 and was incredibly lean. Realistically I think I can now (25 years later) get down to 64.x in time for the outlaw.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C'mon, we need pictures Exclamation

Oh, and of the Argon 118 too!
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stenard




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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Pedro Peru wrote:
This is an interesting article from Alan Couzens that goes into it. https://www.alancouzens.com/blog/height_weight.html


Interesting article.

Again it predicts a race weight of 64kg, which would mean for me losing about 5kg in muscle mass, to allow for bone mass and a reasonable fat percentage.

Pedro Peru wrote:
I would be down to 62kg on AC's calculator. In my late teens and early 20's I boxed at 63.5 and was incredibly lean. Realistically I think I can now (25 years later) get down to 64.x in time for the outlaw.

I suddenly don't feel quite so short! Very Happy
You have to remember this is all averages though, so whilst the output is indicative, two people of the same height and same performance level could inevitably be quite different in terms of weight.
e.g. a swim/bike specialist, versus a swim/run specialist, could have the same end result, but quite different splits to get there (not so relevant at the draft legal ITU level).
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have the love handles to shed; hopefully gone by June time, when the longer stuff is in full swing. I do like cake Smile Currently 6' & 74kg, more of a swim/run physique.
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Pedro Peru




Joined: 19 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
Pedro Peru wrote:
This is an interesting article from Alan Couzens that goes into it. https://www.alancouzens.com/blog/height_weight.html


Interesting article.

Again it predicts a race weight of 64kg, which would mean for me losing about 5kg in muscle mass, to allow for bone mass and a reasonable fat percentage.

Pedro Peru wrote:
I would be down to 62kg on AC's calculator. In my late teens and early 20's I boxed at 63.5 and was incredibly lean. Realistically I think I can now (25 years later) get down to 64.x in time for the outlaw.

I suddenly don't feel quite so short! Very Happy
You have to remember this is all averages though, so whilst the output is indicative, two people of the same height and same performance level could inevitably be quite different in terms of weight.
e.g. a swim/bike specialist, versus a swim/run specialist, could have the same end result, but quite different splits to get there (not so relevant at the draft legal ITU level).

Ha ha. No one is ever bothered if I am stood in front of them at a concert.

So long as I am lean I don't really worry about weight TBH but I know when I am lean I will weigh around 64kg.
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SF




Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 607

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
It seems boditrax thinks there are only three components to the human body, unless it's a coincidence that my bone, muscle and fat add up to 100%.

If I really do have 62.2Kg of muscle, at 173cm, how do I know if I need to gain or lose muscle?

I forget which pro is my height and looked him up, his total weight was around 68Kg to my portly 82kg. Not sure I can get that low just on body fat loss.


You will really, really struggle to lose muscle mass. My understanding is that it will only come once most of your fat has gone.

Don't think you need a lot of muscle mass at all. Look at Jan Frodeno or A Brownlee over the shorter stuff. Skinny guys who just have good functional strength to hold it together.
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