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Scotland joins Canada!
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:19 am    Post subject: Scotland joins Canada! Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39510351

As a Scot I fully understand the desire by many to right the wrongs of old and get independence from England. But those wrongs were hundreds of years ago and since then we have been friends.

My (English) wife would say "how is leaving GB yet staying in the EU independence.... true independence is North Korea".

And with the prior talk about the possibility of joining Norway et all, and with this on joining Canada, I will admit to being a little baffled. I know that this is just one persons suggestion, but seriously....and it hurts me enormously to admit this...my wife has a point....if your true desire is indeed independence, then why this constant desire to get into bed with someone else!

Perhaps it is about time that Scotland did take better control of its destiny, but equally to recognise that it is stronger in a group (which given the desire to stay in the EU is probably recognised).

One solution could be Scottish passports etc as part of the United Kingdom. Full devolution, but within the Kingdom. Another solution could be to accept that the real bad stuff the English did to Scots was several hundred years ago now (notwithstanding some fair comment views of Maggie Thatcher and the poll tax aside) and that just as the Clans once hated each other yet overcame that to form Scotland, now might be the time to stop looking for separating from one family to join another (I mean does Sturgeon really think that Brussels won't tell her what to do? [ok I know that in reality every nation can veto EU law before it becomes law but that tends to get sidelined for the perceived benefits of EU bashing as the external enemy, by some nations]).

But leaving GB/UK to jump straight into bed with another power, just seems a little crazy to me, even though I do understand the historic issues.

Sticking your hand out in friendship and saying ok let's make this situation better for all, seems more sensible to me that divorcing one to jump into bed with a hot new bird.

Nothing against Canada, love the country, but seriously, our world needs strength from working together right now.

Morning rant over, ready to be ignored. Is that tumbleweed.....
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Roscoemck




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just really fear for our future up here.

We've still not been told how our independent country is to be financed. Why should Westminster hand out subsidies?

I can see personal and business tax going through the roof. If business tax is raised, why should my company stay in Scotland? They already have a large national and international operation. That's 5000 potential jobs in Glasgow gone. Will Sturgeon pay my mortgage?

We were given a vote, a "once in a lifetime opportunity", the majority voted no. End of story.

The SNP would be better off actually running this country and stop with this obsession. They had their chance, the majority voted.
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone asked Canada - I suspect not as they wouldnt like the reply they got.

Why would Canada want a country which would need massive handouts and cutbacks making Greece like a paradise ?
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Whisk




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is guy in that article seriously suggesting that Canada could use Scotland as a vehicle for joining the EU? Confused
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:
Is guy in that article seriously suggesting that Canada could use Scotland as a vehicle for joining the EU? Confused


the Canadian left is so far up its own arse that this could be conceivable....
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone has a job for a political head basher and arse kicker let me know.

Seriously the way our world is going really worries me. Just wish that I was in the one percent of the one percent, I would sort the buggers out by getting them to the table and sticking their bleeding hands out to generate win win situation for our country and for our increasingly politically fragile world.

(In case anyone wonders why money is so significant here, it is because while poor folk can touch millions of hearts, eg Dali Lama, the current Pope, for the most part politicians in much of our world do appear to be money motivated, and strategic economic and social investments (and I don't mean bribes) could generate interest, pow wow, and results. Look for example how Bill and Melinda Gates are changing things re vaccines etc). The simple reality is that money talks. And politicians tend to be money orientated.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's a great quote from Gandhi:

I have friends who keep telling me how much it costs them to keep me in poverty
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eek there is also a published letter in this weeks Economist where someone in America suggest Scotland should become the eleventh Canadian province!

Who started this bandwagon?
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Gus




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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignore it, it's just some random guy's well-meaning but rather mad idea and meaningless. I also can't imagine many up in Scotland would give the idea the time of day.

Aside from a hundred angles that are nonsense, this:

"The Scots aren't happy right now, and I don't think they're being treated especially well."

I suspect most Scots are unhappy because they're sick of the never-endum which is causing so much damage to Scotland, sick of Sturgeon and the SNP ignoring what they should be doing - running Scotland, rather than chasing this ridiculous dream.

And not being treated well? Seriously? Up here we have all the devolved power we could possibly want and still being nicely bankrolled by the English. We are in a sweet spot where we have most of the upsides of independence without the downsides, and all subsidised by the English. What's not to like?

Instead this mad bitch and her idiotic, rabid supporters are driving Scotland over the edge. How many years is this downward spiral going to go on before someone realises the damage it is doing to this country? How many businesses have turned away from Scotland because of the uncertainty, how much investment has, instead, gone to England?

It seriously p*sses me off, this. We're running a business that was supposed to be based in Scotland but instead we HQ'd it in England with a small 'satellite' in Scotland because of the uncertainty. Any hint of independence and the entire operation goes South.
We can't make any decisions that would put any asset in Scotland just in case... we're just a small example of what is happening out there.

Try to explain this to a Nationalist and we're 'traitors' or some such other childish bullsh!t. Sometimes I believe the best thing for Scotland is to get her independence, because that's the only way you'll ever persuade a Nationalist what a fecking catastrophe it will be when they go to the IMF begging for a bail out. Even then they'll still manage to find a way to blame the English.

[/rant]
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:

Try to explain this to a Nationalist and we're 'traitors'
I am quite lucky in this regard, while my family has nationalists in it, there are also a few of us who moved to England for work, so I guess it is accepted that after spending most of our lives down here we would see the value of the Union.


I like Sturgeon, but if she, or any fellow Scot, were to call me a traitor, I would be politely reminding her/them that (1) had there been more jobs in Edinburgh when I graduated I may not have left, and (2) Scotland remains very important to me. (3) One benefit of spending half my life in Scotland and half in England is that I have a (hopefully) balanced view of the Union.
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Roscoemck




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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
Ignore it, it's just some random guy's well-meaning but rather mad idea and meaningless. I also can't imagine many up in Scotland would give the idea the time of day.

Aside from a hundred angles that are nonsense, this:

"The Scots aren't happy right now, and I don't think they're being treated especially well."

I suspect most Scots are unhappy because they're sick of the never-endum which is causing so much damage to Scotland, sick of Sturgeon and the SNP ignoring what they should be doing - running Scotland, rather than chasing this ridiculous dream.

And not being treated well? Seriously? Up here we have all the devolved
power we could possibly want and still being nicely bankrolled by the English. We are in a sweet spot where we have most of the upsides of independence without the downsides, and all subsidised by the English. What's not to like?

Instead this mad bitch and her idiotic, rabid supporters are driving Scotland over the edge. How many years is this downward spiral going to go on before someone realises the damage it is doing to this country? How many businesses have turned away from Scotland because of the uncertainty, how much investment has, instead, gone to England?

It seriously p*sses me off, this. We're running a business that was supposed to be based in Scotland but instead we HQ'd it in England with a small 'satellite' in Scotland because of the uncertainty. Any hint of independence and the entire operation goes South.
We can't make any decisions that would put any asset in Scotland just in case... we're just a small example of what is happening out there.

Try to explain this to a Nationalist and we're 'traitors' or some such other childish bullsh!t. Sometimes I believe the best thing for Scotland is to get her independence, because that's the only way you'll ever persuade a Nationalist what a fecking catastrophe it will be when they go to the IMF begging for a bail out. Even then they'll still manage to find a way to blame the English.

[/rant]

Well said. If only people would take heed.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roscoemck wrote:
Gus wrote:
Ignore it, it's just some random guy's well-meaning but rather mad idea and meaningless. I also can't imagine many up in Scotland would give the idea the time of day.

Aside from a hundred angles that are nonsense, this:

"The Scots aren't happy right now, and I don't think they're being treated especially well."

I suspect most Scots are unhappy because they're sick of the never-endum which is causing so much damage to Scotland, sick of Sturgeon and the SNP ignoring what they should be doing - running Scotland, rather than chasing this ridiculous dream.

And not being treated well? Seriously? Up here we have all the devolved
power we could possibly want and still being nicely bankrolled by the English. We are in a sweet spot where we have most of the upsides of independence without the downsides, and all subsidised by the English. What's not to like?

Instead this mad bitch and her idiotic, rabid supporters are driving Scotland over the edge. How many years is this downward spiral going to go on before someone realises the damage it is doing to this country? How many businesses have turned away from Scotland because of the uncertainty, how much investment has, instead, gone to England?

It seriously p*sses me off, this. We're running a business that was supposed to be based in Scotland but instead we HQ'd it in England with a small 'satellite' in Scotland because of the uncertainty. Any hint of independence and the entire operation goes South.
We can't make any decisions that would put any asset in Scotland just in case... we're just a small example of what is happening out there.

Try to explain this to a Nationalist and we're 'traitors' or some such other childish bullsh!t. Sometimes I believe the best thing for Scotland is to get her independence, because that's the only way you'll ever persuade a Nationalist what a fecking catastrophe it will be when they go to the IMF begging for a bail out. Even then they'll still manage to find a way to blame the English.

[/rant]

Well said. If only people would take heed.


whether she gets independence and feks it up, or doesn't get it and still feks it up, she will still be hailed a hero to the cause in 100 years time...
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Roscoemck wrote:
Gus wrote:
Ignore it, it's just some random guy's well-meaning but rather mad idea and meaningless. I also can't imagine many up in Scotland would give the idea the time of day.

Aside from a hundred angles that are nonsense, this:

"The Scots aren't happy right now, and I don't think they're being treated especially well."

I suspect most Scots are unhappy because they're sick of the never-endum which is causing so much damage to Scotland, sick of Sturgeon and the SNP ignoring what they should be doing - running Scotland, rather than chasing this ridiculous dream.

And not being treated well? Seriously? Up here we have all the devolved
power we could possibly want and still being nicely bankrolled by the English. We are in a sweet spot where we have most of the upsides of independence without the downsides, and all subsidised by the English. What's not to like?

Instead this mad bitch and her idiotic, rabid supporters are driving Scotland over the edge. How many years is this downward spiral going to go on before someone realises the damage it is doing to this country? How many businesses have turned away from Scotland because of the uncertainty, how much investment has, instead, gone to England?

It seriously p*sses me off, this. We're running a business that was supposed to be based in Scotland but instead we HQ'd it in England with a small 'satellite' in Scotland because of the uncertainty. Any hint of independence and the entire operation goes South.
We can't make any decisions that would put any asset in Scotland just in case... we're just a small example of what is happening out there.

Try to explain this to a Nationalist and we're 'traitors' or some such other childish bullsh!t. Sometimes I believe the best thing for Scotland is to get her independence, because that's the only way you'll ever persuade a Nationalist what a fecking catastrophe it will be when they go to the IMF begging for a bail out. Even then they'll still manage to find a way to blame the English.

[/rant]

Well said. If only people would take heed.


whether she gets independence and feks it up, or doesn't get it and still feks it up, she will still be hailed a hero to the cause in 100 years time...
Maybe, but there are bigger issues at stake, like global stability.

I just hope that our politicians gain the wisdom to realise that the more nationalism takes control, the more likely that global war becomes. Not saying you shouldn't be proud of your country, nor that you shouldn't control your destiny, just that now is not the time for divorces.
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Gus




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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Roscoemck wrote:
Gus wrote:
Ignore it, it's just some random guy's well-meaning but rather mad idea and meaningless. I also can't imagine many up in Scotland would give the idea the time of day.

Aside from a hundred angles that are nonsense, this:

"The Scots aren't happy right now, and I don't think they're being treated especially well."

I suspect most Scots are unhappy because they're sick of the never-endum which is causing so much damage to Scotland, sick of Sturgeon and the SNP ignoring what they should be doing - running Scotland, rather than chasing this ridiculous dream.

And not being treated well? Seriously? Up here we have all the devolved
power we could possibly want and still being nicely bankrolled by the English. We are in a sweet spot where we have most of the upsides of independence without the downsides, and all subsidised by the English. What's not to like?

Instead this mad bitch and her idiotic, rabid supporters are driving Scotland over the edge. How many years is this downward spiral going to go on before someone realises the damage it is doing to this country? How many businesses have turned away from Scotland because of the uncertainty, how much investment has, instead, gone to England?

It seriously p*sses me off, this. We're running a business that was supposed to be based in Scotland but instead we HQ'd it in England with a small 'satellite' in Scotland because of the uncertainty. Any hint of independence and the entire operation goes South.
We can't make any decisions that would put any asset in Scotland just in case... we're just a small example of what is happening out there.

Try to explain this to a Nationalist and we're 'traitors' or some such other childish bullsh!t. Sometimes I believe the best thing for Scotland is to get her independence, because that's the only way you'll ever persuade a Nationalist what a fecking catastrophe it will be when they go to the IMF begging for a bail out. Even then they'll still manage to find a way to blame the English.

[/rant]

Well said. If only people would take heed.


whether she gets independence and feks it up, or doesn't get it and still feks it up, she will still be hailed a hero to the cause in 100 years time...
Maybe, but there are bigger issues at stake, like global stability.

I just hope that our politicians gain the wisdom to realise that the more nationalism takes control, the more likely that global war becomes. Not saying you shouldn't be proud of your country, nor that you shouldn't control your destiny, just that now is not the time for divorces.


The irony is, though, that the SNP demand 'Independence' then want to jump straight into the EU and become a little Northern outpost of the Federation. Run entirely from Brussels, having everything from its laws to its economic policies dictated from those with even less cultural similarity and further away than Westminster.

As some say, 'you couldn't make it up'.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed.

Don't forget though, unless I misunderstand the process which is possible, every single EU law is approved by ever member nation before it becomes law (not in national parliaments but in get together of nations representatives). So I think that it is accurate to say that Britain has approved in advance every single EU law, as Scotland would be able to.

Politicians like to downplay this, preferring to promote the EU as the external enemy for political advantage. But the truth is we approved every single law before it became EU law.

Now if I am wrong, and you know this for a fact, please tell me.

Politicians need to be more transparent with the public and stop playing games.
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