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Analysing Training
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 278
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:57 am    Post subject: Analysing Training Reply with quote

Morning all.

I have a 920XT that uploads my workouts to Garmin Connect and Training Peaks (free version).

I look at the stats immediately after a workout and that's pretty much it.

What I want to do now is utilise these stats to help me improve overall. I feel I'm going through the motions sometimes, doing a workout because I feel I should.

What should I be looking for in all these stats ie how do I use them to help me improve? A properly structured training plan should also help!

It's a long way out, but my target is Ironman Edinburgh 70.3 next year.

Cheers
Ross
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14694
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

although the stats are a useful tool and you can learn from the data, perhaps the start point should be to establish what you want from each session first and thus working to a structured plan is therefore important to achieve this...
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 195
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you getting faster?
How do you measure this?
When are your test sessions? How often?
Are you recovering faster?
Are you improving equally over all three disciplines?
Are you paticulary slow at anything? If so how can you improve?
Most importantly are you enjoying it? If its a real pain in the as take a few days, the urge to train will come back.

The data should be improving gradually, or indeed staying the same for less effort from yourself.
My watts are static but I'm slowly loosing weight, which greatly helps my running.

When is your 70.3?
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 8079
Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So ignoring completely the "properly structured training plan" (personally I think they're a bad idea, since you cannot predict even day to day variation, let alone where you might be in a week or month, but lowest common denominator plans would still be better than doing nothing of course if that is the alternative. )

What you get from the data, is a record of what you actually did, at its most basic you can track improvement, best to ensure you have lots of benchmark activities that make the comparison easy. Above that you yes need to look for patterns, short term that might hint if you're training too much, or can actually train more, especially if you've previously trained more without having any problems - you will be able to train more again.

Using some method to quantify overall training volume will help with that of course.

The next, which is less important in a 70.3, as you'll be doing so few maximal efforts or races in your triaining, is using the data to inform why you failed in a particular race (or hard session) did you push too hard riding over hills, did you under eat etc. You'll need to compare the efforts against similar successful and other failed activities to understand what went wrong etc.
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 278
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good stuff, thanks guys.

Ironman Edinburgh should be July 18.

I know my swim time per 100m has improved over the last few months. My HR has come down on the run, however, I am taking the runs a bit slower.

My bike HR is down and average speed up.

I really would like to improve swimming the most, followed by bike then run.

Looking at the comments above, I need to add more notes along with the data.
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 854
Location: High Peak

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strava is really good for this.

If you can avoid the desire to RACE having local segments that you run/ride regularly can make benchmarking really easy. Its also very fun so can be all the motivation to get out training.

Different types of segments highlight your strengths and weaknesses.

If you are struggling analysing your own data, Strava does a lot for you.

Its free so not a lot to lose...
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1306

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'd agree. There's a lot of dick measuring that goes on with strava, but I have the segment leaderboards defaulted to just list my own performances. It's a very quick an easy way to check/quantify progress (or regression!) on some key loops/sections of road.

Being able to quickly see pace/speed, HR, power, etc is a nice way to put the numbers in context too. For example, I might have done a section slower, but if my power matched my best with a lower HR, I can infer the time was just a consequence of poor conditions rather than reduced performance.
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 278
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good shout on Strava. More exploring needed there.


Training's off for a couple of days, I have the lurgy Mad
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
So ignoring completely the "properly structured training plan" (personally I think they're a bad idea, since you cannot predict even day .


which is why elite athletes are so bad i suppose...
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
So ignoring completely the "properly structured training plan" (personally I think they're a bad idea, since you cannot predict even day .


which is why elite athletes are so bad i suppose...


Then you would be getting into definitions of what a "structured training plan" is, but they certainly do not have the workouts planned weeks in advance at specific power or HR levels, which is what amateurs call a structured training plan.. The training is adapted on a much more local day to day depending on previous demands.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
So ignoring completely the "properly structured training plan" (personally I think they're a bad idea, since you cannot predict even day .


which is why elite athletes are so bad i suppose...


Then you would be getting into definitions of what a "structured training plan" is, but they certainly do not have the workouts planned weeks in advance at specific power or HR levels, which is what amateurs call a structured training plan.. The training is adapted on a much more local day to day depending on previous demands.


absolutely...structured simply means organised and deliberate, and, whilst i am not a huge fan of long term plans, they at least act as a guide which athletes can follow..their usefulness comes in the athlete's ability to refine them locally...which, oddly enough, is what happens at elite level...
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 278
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
So ignoring completely the "properly structured training plan" (personally I think they're a bad idea, since you cannot predict even day .


which is why elite athletes are so bad i suppose...


Then you would be getting into definitions of what a "structured training plan" is, but they certainly do not have the workouts planned weeks in advance at specific power or HR levels, which is what amateurs call a structured training plan.. The training is adapted on a much more local day to day depending on previous demands.


absolutely...structured simply means organised and deliberate, and, whilst i am not a huge fan of long term plans, they at least act as a guide which athletes can follow..their usefulness comes in the athlete's ability to refine them locally...which, oddly enough, is what happens at elite level...



Is it not also easier for Elites to be more rigid as essentially this their day job? For the majority of us it's a hobby so work, family etc have to be factored in.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14694
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roscoemck wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
So ignoring completely the "properly structured training plan" (personally I think they're a bad idea, since you cannot predict even day .


which is why elite athletes are so bad i suppose...


Then you would be getting into definitions of what a "structured training plan" is, but they certainly do not have the workouts planned weeks in advance at specific power or HR levels, which is what amateurs call a structured training plan.. The training is adapted on a much more local day to day depending on previous demands.


absolutely...structured simply means organised and deliberate, and, whilst i am not a huge fan of long term plans, they at least act as a guide which athletes can follow..their usefulness comes in the athlete's ability to refine them locally...which, oddly enough, is what happens at elite level...



Is it not also easier for Elites to be more rigid as essentially this their day job? For the majority of us it's a hobby so work, family etc have to be factored in.


absolutely...but some of that can be factored in during the planning, hence the point above about refining the plan..

elites don't train that much more (with exceptions) they rest more..
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 278
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Roscoemck wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
So ignoring completely the "properly structured training plan" (personally I think they're a bad idea, since you cannot predict even day .


which is why elite athletes are so bad i suppose...


Then you would be getting into definitions of what a "structured training plan" is, but they certainly do not have the workouts planned weeks in advance at specific power or HR levels, which is what amateurs call a structured training plan.. The training is adapted on a much more local day to day depending on previous demands.


absolutely...structured simply means organised and deliberate, and, whilst i am not a huge fan of long term plans, they at least act as a guide which athletes can follow..their usefulness comes in the athlete's ability to refine them locally...which, oddly enough, is what happens at elite level...



Is it not also easier for Elites to be more rigid as essentially this their day job? For the majority of us it's a hobby so work, family etc have to be factored in.


absolutely...but some of that can be factored in during the planning, hence the point above about refining the plan..

elites don't train that much more (with exceptions) they rest more..


Rest and recovery, the key. Something I probably don't do very well!

Saying that, off work today and yesterday with a stinking cold, not been able to do much else apart from rest.
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 278
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont think I can quite justify a Training Peaks subscription, however, anyone using Strava premium and is it worth it?
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