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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TransitionTed wrote:
Yes to Waterlogged, great read
On a personal n=1 experience, I find cramping correlates well to simple fatigue, especially in hamstring. So poor conditioning or over doing the training volume leads to my cramping.
I've never yet had problems with poor salt intake and I am a sweater. In fact, I rarely take a drink in a marathon and rarely suffer cramping as long as I'm well prepared


as sweaty Ted says, lack of specific preparation is often a cause
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TransitionTed wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
hammerer wrote:
Doca wrote:
As far as I can tell cramping is not very well understood so who can say salt tablets don't help? It makes sense to me that if you lose salts during sweating then surely it would better to replace them. I use them in training & have never had any negative effects.
Maybe they are having no benefit but I prefer not to change whats not broken.


Read waterlogged by Noakes. Will change the way the sports nutrition companies have made you think about the whole hydration situation.


yes, but it took Noakes years to get off his high horse and be honest about much of his other work...

At least he did though, with a well researched "climb down"



Very true , I find it hard to warm to him especially the whole all carbs are evil must eat high fat stance but with hydration people have died because of the poor advice. There has been evidence that electrolytes can help improve the uptake of carbs so it might not all be bad to use them, but salt . We get more than enough in western diets.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TransitionTed wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
hammerer wrote:
Doca wrote:
As far as I can tell cramping is not very well understood so who can say salt tablets don't help? It makes sense to me that if you lose salts during sweating then surely it would better to replace them. I use them in training & have never had any negative effects.
Maybe they are having no benefit but I prefer not to change whats not broken.


Read waterlogged by Noakes. Will change the way the sports nutrition companies have made you think about the whole hydration situation.


yes, but it took Noakes years to get off his high horse and be honest about much of his other work...

At least he did though, with a well researched "climb down"


absolutely...chapeau to him...but he has left a trail of destruction in his wake...

as with all sports science...go for the evidenced inspired not necessarily the evidence based...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
TransitionTed wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
hammerer wrote:
Doca wrote:
As far as I can tell cramping is not very well understood so who can say salt tablets don't help? It makes sense to me that if you lose salts during sweating then surely it would better to replace them. I use them in training & have never had any negative effects.
Maybe they are having no benefit but I prefer not to change whats not broken.


Read waterlogged by Noakes. Will change the way the sports nutrition companies have made you think about the whole hydration situation.


yes, but it took Noakes years to get off his high horse and be honest about much of his other work...

At least he did though, with a well researched "climb down"



Very true , I find it hard to warm to him especially the whole all carbs are evil must eat high fat stance but with hydration people have died because of the poor advice. There has been evidence that electrolytes can help improve the uptake of carbs so it might not all be bad to use them, but salt . We get more than enough in western diets.


it was his ahem sponsored stance on running shoes that put me off him...
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Tigger




Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 2757
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
I find it hard to warm to him especially the whole all carbs are evil must eat high fat stance but with hydration people have died because of the poor advice.


I don't think he says that all carbs are evil. But if it turns out that he is right that people who are insulin resistant / type 2 should substantially reduce carbs, then he will have saved more people than ever were at risk of dying of hyponatremia. I think something like 135 people a week have a limb chopped off in the UK because of diabetes. That's just ridiculous. But the US has 185,000 amputations a year! Imagine if what he says is right and reduces that.
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tigger wrote:
hammerer wrote:
I find it hard to warm to him especially the whole all carbs are evil must eat high fat stance but with hydration people have died because of the poor advice.


I don't think he says that all carbs are evil. But if it turns out that he is right that people who are insulin resistant / type 2 should substantially reduce carbs, then he will have saved more people than ever were at risk of dying of hyponatremia. I think something like 135 people a week have a limb chopped off in the UK because of diabetes. That's just ridiculous. But the US has 185,000 amputations a year! Imagine if what he says is right and reduces that.


For type 2 diabetics it makes sense, and in a way for many cutting refined sugar and crap carbs is a great idea but this whole cult like fad following where everyone must be keto is damaging what may be good advice for some. When people recommend "fat bombs" or sticking half a pack of butter in a coffee then you know the concept has become too extreme.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="hammerer"]you can't legislate for people being idiots...look how many put half a pack of sugar on their kids cereal...

With kids cereal already being half a pack of sugar.
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TransitionTed




Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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Location: On It Lika A Car Bonnet

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
TransitionTed wrote:
Yes to Waterlogged, great read
On a personal n=1 experience, I find cramping correlates well to simple fatigue, especially in hamstring. So poor conditioning or over doing the training volume leads to my cramping.
I've never yet had problems with poor salt intake and I am a sweater. In fact, I rarely take a drink in a marathon and rarely suffer cramping as long as I'm well prepared


as sweaty Ted says, lack of specific preparation is often a cause


you didn't seem to mind either last night, pumpkin
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TransitionTed wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
TransitionTed wrote:
Yes to Waterlogged, great read
On a personal n=1 experience, I find cramping correlates well to simple fatigue, especially in hamstring. So poor conditioning or over doing the training volume leads to my cramping.
I've never yet had problems with poor salt intake and I am a sweater. In fact, I rarely take a drink in a marathon and rarely suffer cramping as long as I'm well prepared


as sweaty Ted says, lack of specific preparation is often a cause


you didn't seem to mind either last night, pumpkin


your manly perspiration or your inability to rise to the task???
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TransitionTed




Joined: 02 Aug 2008
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Location: On It Lika A Car Bonnet

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
TransitionTed wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
TransitionTed wrote:
Yes to Waterlogged, great read
On a personal n=1 experience, I find cramping correlates well to simple fatigue, especially in hamstring. So poor conditioning or over doing the training volume leads to my cramping.
I've never yet had problems with poor salt intake and I am a sweater. In fact, I rarely take a drink in a marathon and rarely suffer cramping as long as I'm well prepared


as sweaty Ted says, lack of specific preparation is often a cause


you didn't seem to mind either last night, pumpkin


your manly perspiration or your inability to rise to the task???


I was prepared
just not specifically
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TransitionTed wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
TransitionTed wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
TransitionTed wrote:
Yes to Waterlogged, great read
On a personal n=1 experience, I find cramping correlates well to simple fatigue, especially in hamstring. So poor conditioning or over doing the training volume leads to my cramping.
I've never yet had problems with poor salt intake and I am a sweater. In fact, I rarely take a drink in a marathon and rarely suffer cramping as long as I'm well prepared


as sweaty Ted says, lack of specific preparation is often a cause


you didn't seem to mind either last night, pumpkin


your manly perspiration or your inability to rise to the task???


I was prepared
just not specifically


and thank your god for that...need to get Ron to help you with your taper...
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Doca wrote:
As far as I can tell cramping is not very well understood so who can say salt tablets don't help? It makes sense to me that if you lose salts during sweating then surely it would better to replace them. I use them in training & have never had any negative effects.
Maybe they are having no benefit but I prefer not to change whats not broken.


It also makes sense to think the sun revolves around the Earth. You can see it happen, can't you.

You also lose urea when you sweat, but you don't start drinking piss to replace it do you?


I think that's a bit harsh.

Urea in sweat is a waste product of protein use, adding more of that is definitely not going to help. Sweat contains salt to maintain the bloods salinity as water is lost. If your replacing the water it's not a big stretch to imagine that maintaining the bloods salinity when adding more water by adding some salt at least has some logic to it.

I'm open minded about it, flavoured salt tablets taste better than water & I don't feel they are doing me any harm taking them. If you have any evidence to the contrary Id would be happy to learn from it.
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Tigger




Joined: 25 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doca wrote:
If your replacing the water it's not a big stretch to imagine that maintaining the bloods salinity when adding more water by adding some salt at least has some logic to it.


Some logic, but not when you do the maths. Have a look at this.
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
you can't legislate for people being idiots...look how many put half a pack of sugar on their kids cereal...

With kids cereal already being half a pack of sugar.


And washed down with a "healthy" orange juice. Pure sugar of the worst kind.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
sticking half a pack of butter in a coffee.


Sounds like a Rick Stein recipe.

I once pan-fried the kids some sausages using butter; they were awesome.
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