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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
Posts: 231
Location: salisbury

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: zone 2 running Reply with quote

I know that this topic has been covered extensively, however....

I have not been following Fink plan or anything similar, but over the past 3 months or so I have been keeping many of my runs around zone 2 for 3-4k followed by 1k in zone 4

Today I decided to do a 10k and keep really strictly to zone 2 and then compare it with the same run I was doing last year

Over this course (mixed on and off road) last year my fastest time was in October when I ran 52m44s, my average HR was 162bpm and 80% was in zone 3 (157bpm+)

today I ran the same course in 48m34s average HR 151bpm 83% zone 2 - and it felt so easy (without the zone 4 efforts that I normally put in)

My question is, has putting in 1k zone 4 efforts in my runs helped drive such an improvement in my zone 2 running?

What is the experience of other Long Distance triathletes - if I run at 4:50/km in zone 2, how much slower should I pace on an IM

Am i over analyzing and over thinking this?
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You lost a lot of weight, and got fitter along with it through consistent training. That's the reason it felt easier and your body was less taxed, regardless of the Z4 element.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as J says, the improvement will be a combination of factors, including the recent training although that may only have accounted for a small section...

to understand more, you'd need to advise on your zones and how they were calculated...

in an IM you will run at the pace you can sustain after the swim and bike...running off the bike will help to establish that...
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over analysing? This is the internet Smile

Looks like a decent improvement in six months to me. Occasional intervals Inthink are beneficial.
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 282

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: zone 2 running Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
I know that this topic has been covered extensively, however....

I have not been following Fink plan or anything similar, but over the past 3 months or so I have been keeping many of my runs around zone 2 for 3-4k followed by 1k in zone 4

Today I decided to do a 10k and keep really strictly to zone 2 and then compare it with the same run I was doing last year

Over this course (mixed on and off road) last year my fastest time was in October when I ran 52m44s, my average HR was 162bpm and 80% was in zone 3 (157bpm+)

today I ran the same course in 48m34s average HR 151bpm 83% zone 2 - and it felt so easy (without the zone 4 efforts that I normally put in)

My question is, has putting in 1k zone 4 efforts in my runs helped drive such an improvement in my zone 2 running?

What is the experience of other Long Distance triathletes - if I run at 4:50/km in zone 2, how much slower should I pace on an IM

Am i over analyzing and over thinking this?


If you want some 'over-analysis' (sic). Then your zone 2 seems crazy fast. Unless you are a sub 35min 10k runner or something like that. Easy (and zone 2 is easy) should be easy..... aka effortless..... My guess is your 'zone 2' is more like solid zone 3.

Don't worry, it's a mistake lots of triathletes make Wink
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hence asking for zones earlier...
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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Location: salisbury

PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Strava zones - Z2 is 123 to 153 based on max HR of 190

Fink uses 4 zones rather than 5 on Strava, and Z2 is 112 to 156

My zone 2 run was based on zone 2 on Strava, so 123 to 153

My 10k run time is around 41mins

did a 10k yesterday at 140bpm and did 10k in 52mins - that was a really easy run, even though I had done a TT in the morning, felt that I was putting no effort in at all
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's because strava use Z2 as a moderate zone and not an endurance zone...

Endurance work, mainly, should be in the endurance zone...
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Tri'ing Swimmer




Joined: 15 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garmin & Friel say my Z2 is 125-140 if based off resting and max HR of 36 and 185, or 136-151 if lactate threshold HR of 170 (my average HR from a 10k race last year).
If LTHR is last 20 minutes of 30 minute effort then my correct Z2 may actually be higher still, but staying low-mid 140s seems to feel about right for steady work for me.
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mattsurf




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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is very confusing, according to Garmin, with a resting HR or 53, max HR of 190 and LTHR of 172, my zone 2 is 138 to 153
However, I will start to use 140 as my target for endurance zone running
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
This is very confusing, according to Garmin, with a resting HR or 53, max HR of 190 and LTHR of 172, my zone 2 is 138 to 153
However, I will start to use 140 as my target for endurance zone running


how did you calculate your LTHR
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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Location: salisbury

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
This is very confusing, according to Garmin, with a resting HR or 53, max HR of 190 and LTHR of 172, my zone 2 is 138 to 153
However, I will start to use 140 as my target for endurance zone running


how did you calculate your LTHR


Garmin Connect did it - however seems reasonable based on my HR during Parkrun - 10 minutes good warmup followed by 20mins maximum effort
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 282

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mattsurf wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
mattsurf wrote:
This is very confusing, according to Garmin, with a resting HR or 53, max HR of 190 and LTHR of 172, my zone 2 is 138 to 153
However, I will start to use 140 as my target for endurance zone running


how did you calculate your LTHR


Garmin Connect did it - however seems reasonable based on my HR during Parkrun - 10 minutes good warmup followed by 20mins maximum effort


You should use 140 as a maximum.
Mid Zone 2 should be 'run all day' pace. Literally, all day. (assuming your tendons etc would be up to it before a pedant comes along Smile )
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When running, I have to force myself to stay Z2, it's that low.
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zones are fraught with danger. As i have mentioned many times on here, everyone is different so the standard zone calculations may not be appropriate to you. To make things worse, as you are discovering, there is no standard as Strava, Garmin, Fink, Friel etc etc all have slightly different interpretations.

My boring example that i always tout is that i can run marathons at over 90% of max HR. It's weird, but just the way my body works.

This is why i think RPE mixed with an understanding of your own body through recent races and training (which will inevitably change over time) is the way forward. As others have said above, the purpose of zone 2, or endurance or whatever you want to call it is running at an 'all day' pace. If you had a mate running with you, you should be able to chat through the whole run.

Don't stress on exact numbers for things like this, but concentrate on using the data to get a good feel for effort, pace and improvement as well as using it as a guide rather than an absolute dictat.
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