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Tyre slipping, wet roads
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2156
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Tyre slipping, wet roads Reply with quote

So as I was grinding around Exmoor last weekend, I saw quite a few bodies on the side of the road, ambulance crew and felt my own rear tyre slipping a few times on the hills.

I started wondering about whether technique or tyre choice would make any difference, or is it just a case of bike handling skills?
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
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Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been riding Vittoria Rubino Pro Slicks in the Manchester weather and on the moors for 4 years and never had an issue that wasn't my fault.
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyres do slip on wet surfaces TP Wink

I would imagine the accidents you saw were as a result of various things: poor bike handling skills, lack of course reconnaissance, gravel/mud, high tyre pressures or maybe avoiding another rider.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Tyres do slip on wet surfaces TP Wink

I would imagine the accidents you saw were as a result of various things: poor bike handling skills, lack of course reconnaissance, gravel/mud, high tyre pressures or maybe avoiding another rider.


that...but mostly poor skills for the conditions...
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2156
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Tyres do slip on wet surfaces TP Wink

I would imagine the accidents you saw were as a result of various things: poor bike handling skills, lack of course reconnaissance, gravel/mud, high tyre pressures or maybe avoiding another rider.


that...but mostly poor skills for the conditions...


So I was thinking that, perhaps paradoxically, if instead of the low rpm/high torque grinding I was doing to keep the power output low...if I'd hit the hills faster and maintained a higher power output, it might have kept the torque lower and avoided some slipping.

Look, I was out on that bike course forever, this is one of the least controversial conversations I was having with myself! Wink
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
I've been riding Vittoria Rubino Pro Slicks in the Manchester weather and on the moors for 4 years and never had an issue that wasn't my fault.


I'm on VR Pro 3s, used on the turbo so maybe even slicker than usual.
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we talking slipping on the ups or downs ???
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ When out of the saddle by the looks of it. I've had that a few times, not a lot you can do if you're out of the saddle on a steep hill, other than to slog away in the saddle if your gears are low enough.
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
^^ When out of the saddle by the looks of it. I've had that a few times, not a lot you can do if you're out of the saddle on a steep hill, other than to slog away in the saddle if your gears are low enough.


And be ready to unclip SUPER fast Laughing

I was having a few issues in the hills around Llandudno on Sunday. I just hunted for the driest grippiest line, and kept the weight as far back as possible.
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
^^ When out of the saddle by the looks of it. I've had that a few times, not a lot you can do if you're out of the saddle on a steep hill, other than to slog away in the saddle if your gears are low enough.


Yeah, up. I stay seated, always. Easy, plodding to keep the power down. Even at 37rpm on 34x30 I was over 90% FTP quite often.

Some people didn't appreciate the whistling, but I get bored quickly when taking it easy Wink
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TriSam




Joined: 26 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

37rpm?!

Rest in pieces to your knees. Sounds like you should invest in a compact or a different cassette?
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TriSam wrote:
37rpm?!

Rest in pieces to your knees. Sounds like you should invest in a compact or a different cassette?


Lose body fat, increase FTP is the only route forward left to me Smile
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
TriSam wrote:
37rpm?!

Rest in pieces to your knees. Sounds like you should invest in a compact or a different cassette?


Lose body fat, increase FTP is the only route forward left to me Smile


Neither will address tyre slippage on steep hills though.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
TriSam wrote:
37rpm?!

Rest in pieces to your knees. Sounds like you should invest in a compact or a different cassette?


Lose body fat, increase FTP is the only route forward left to me Smile

Are you sure? 37rpm is not something I've ever heard of. Even my "low rpm" work is in the 60's.

Surely you could get a longer cage rear mech and have a largest cassette sprocket up to mid 30's? And even go triple on the front?!

According to bikecalc.com, if you were 34-30 for example, you'd have been going c5km/h. At that speed, it's probably more energy effective to get off and push!

I genuinely can't fathom 37rpm and staying upright! Plus, I would have thought that will totally skew your power seeing as it will be so up and down throughout the pedal stroke at that cadence. You might have been "capping" it on the screen, but surely the force needed on the downstroke will have been significant, with then a big reduction in the deadspot. Although I guess at 37rpm, with 1s refresh rates, you'll be getting multiple readings per revolution! That said, I'm sure DCR has said stuff in the past that power meters (other than maybe a powertap hub) fall down at seriously low rpm as the power = torque x rpm calculation effectively becomes invalid for the reasons I've implied above.
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
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Location: High Peak

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I run out of gears and and cadence heads down to <60 its out of the saddle stuff, I would never sit there and maintain that, once out of the saddle body weight does a lot of the work and your knees are straighter.


Why do you refuse to get out of the saddle?
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