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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2219
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Trigger points... Reply with quote

Hi all,

I may have been slightly naive in going to a physiotherapist. I had assumed they were genuine medical practitioners of some sort, but now I'm not so sure.

Is there any evidence for trigger points, what they are and how pressing on them helps?

I starting to think this is related to myofacial release, which is quackery.

I'll be mildly embarrassed if I've been suckered out of 92, but I'd rather know. Smile
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Pedro Peru




Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 913
Location: Leeds

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Trigger points... Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Hi all,

I may have been slightly naive in going to a physiotherapist. I had assumed they were genuine medical practitioners of some sort, but now I'm not so sure.

Is there any evidence for trigger points, what they are and how pressing on them helps?

I starting to think this is related to myofacial release, which is quackery.

I'll be mildly embarrassed if I've been suckered out of 92, but I'd rather know. Smile

A bit unfair as obviously physio's are medical practitioners but it is a broad church. Also, you perhaps wouldn't doubt an orthopedic surgeon yet operations with dubious evidence of satisfactory outcomes often occur.

With trigger points specifically, here you go https://www.painscience.com/articles/trigger-point-doubts.php
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 16284
Location: Right Next Door To Hell

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

92 for a physio appt. Where did you go, harley street Wink You've been suckered alright Razz
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blindcider




Joined: 12 Sep 2013
Posts: 213

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Trigger points... Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Hi all,

I may have been slightly naive in going to a physiotherapist. I had assumed they were genuine medical practitioners of some sort, but now I'm not so sure.

Is there any evidence for trigger points, what they are and how pressing on them helps?

I starting to think this is related to myofacial release, which is quackery.

I'll be mildly embarrassed if I've been suckered out of 92, but I'd rather know. Smile


Based on my experience dry needling of trigger points in the calf worked for me. I was sceptical beforehand but it got me back up and running.
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 1012
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a big believer of them, for a lot of things, granted some people will oversell them but I get a lot of tight muscles\knots and that kind of manipulation works well for me as treatment.

For others and different injuries then they might not be as useful, also depends on the practioner.

I go to one physio who has worked at several pro football clubs and he's a good physio without doing much manipulation, in fairness a current tendon problem in my toe wouldn't respond as well to that kind of treatment. But sometimes when it is coming from tight muscles and the physio finds the spot then it really helps.

I know a lot of my own trigger points these days and can help ward off quite a few minor niggles, shame about the two I've had since Christmas but marathon training didn't help Sad

Jeff
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just go and see an experienced sports massage therapist.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Just go and see an experienced sports massage therapist.


yep...
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2219
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Just go and see an experienced sports massage therapist.


yep...


What difference is there, if any?

Between practitioner and/or treatment?
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Pedro Peru




Joined: 19 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Just go and see an experienced sports massage therapist.


yep...


What difference is there, if any?

Between practitioner and/or treatment?

I would say experience. There will be a therapists of varying professions/qualifications who could likely help you but experience of dealing with people like you is the key.
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tuckandgo




Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 286

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends what the problem is.

A tight muscle is a neuromuscular issue - it is the neuro system that is causing the muscle to contract which is making it feel tight.

Not to be confused with sore muscles which is something different (and last time I checked still being debated about but I may be out of date.)

On that basis, in theory, you should be able to 'release' the muscle through appropriate manipulation of the neuro system, which would be through point activation/disactivation.

So there is some reason behind trigger points.

Bottom line is, does it work for you as an individual.
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SF




Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 605

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Trigger points... Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Hi all,

I may have been slightly naive in going to a physiotherapist. I had assumed they were genuine medical practitioners of some sort, but now I'm not so sure.

Is there any evidence for trigger points, what they are and how pressing on them helps?

I starting to think this is related to myofacial release, which is quackery.

I'll be mildly embarrassed if I've been suckered out of 92, but I'd rather know. Smile


We used to use a sports physio who also did chiro and accu. Worth his weight in gold when I was training properly. Whether it was a placebo or not, helped massively. 90+ is big money though.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14472
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Just go and see an experienced sports massage therapist.


yep...


What difference is there, if any?

Between practitioner and/or treatment?



about 52 in this case...

as a generalisation, more hands on...

will elaborate when i have more time...
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Everyone

50 for the first session, 45min scheduled 1hr received.
42 for follow up session, 30 mins.
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Andy916




Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It boils down to efficacy and perhaps your ability to differentiate that from placebo.

My partner and I are both research biologists. We both studied and qualified in basic massage, seeing plenty of non/poor/patchy science there but some valuable effect. She took a step further to qualify in sports massage, seeing plenty more of the same but more valuable effect (for me in particular). A mutual friend went one step further to qualify as sports therapist, guess what, more of the same in terms of science but also of effect.

Physiotherapy is quite distinct and, as stated, less hands-on generally speaking. Still valuable if you find a good sports-orientated one, but massage/sports therapy is most probably your best first step.
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Pedro Peru




Joined: 19 Apr 2010
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Location: Leeds

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy916 wrote:
It boils down to efficacy and perhaps your ability to differentiate that from placebo.

My partner and I are both research biologists. We both studied and qualified in basic massage, seeing plenty of non/poor/patchy science there but some valuable effect. She took a step further to qualify in sports massage, seeing plenty more of the same but more valuable effect (for me in particular). A mutual friend went one step further to qualify as sports therapist, guess what, more of the same in terms of science but also of effect.

Physiotherapy is quite distinct and, as stated, less hands-on generally speaking. Still valuable if you find a good sports-orientated one, but massage/sports therapy is most probably your best first step.

I largely agree other than to say there are plenty of hands on physio's. I know a few sports therapists that have moved on to be physio's or osteopaths.
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