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Disqualified IM Austria
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fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
Posts: 2391
Location: rural Zuzzex

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What's the IM view on this (in UK IM races for example)?


you need to be sure first what rules the IM event is being run under - some are run under National Federation rules (as per IMUK who are permitted by the BTF and Officials are BTF people) or under IM rules (mostly N America - but not sure about Austria)

if under BTF rules, then it comes under road traffic violations which is usually - but not always - a straight DQ for violation (crossing solid lines, jumping red lights etc).

each case will be different in each country so if you want my TO advice - stick to one side of the road and don't cross into the opposite carriageway unless it's absolutely essential for safety (avoiding bikes ahead isn't essential - you're better slowing and letting a gap open up than risk a DQ), and if penalised take this up with the Race Ref who can then decide.

fwiw - I got warned at IM Florida for crossing into the other carriageway to avoid bikes ahead. it wasn't a solid line, just a dotted one, but I still got spotted by a moto and had a warning. lesson learnt as an athlete!
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, local rules apply...so read the rules and go to the race briefing...it's a common DQ at Zofingen
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SwimsLikeAWalrus




Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UK IM events use WTC Rules, albeit with the odd local variation.

Latest version of rules:

5.01d '... In no case can a cyclist cross a solid yellow line indicating a no passing zone'
(1:00 time penalty or depending on severity... DSQ)

So as Jim says same as for cycle racing. No crossing solid white lines.

I wonder if the contraflow was a no overtaking zone and the OP was carded when it was safe to do so.
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fat buddha




Joined: 13 Jul 2004
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Location: rural Zuzzex

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
UK IM events use WTC Rules, albeit with the odd local variation.


you are correct - just checked with a TO doing this weekend's event. I was always under the impression that it was fully run under BTF rules, but as you say it's under IM rules with some BTF rule interpretation.

hopefully in time the ITU and WTC will get those common set of rules (it's getting closer each year) so that these interpretation errors don't occur and we end up in a bugger's muddle
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2266
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a lot of sympathy for the OP. Sometimes the rules imagine a perfect race, not what happens in a real bike leg. Any situation which calls for evasive action to save injury trumps road safety rules in law and real life - you swerve to avoid a pram in the middle of the road regardless of solid white lines.

I was at the briefing last night and saw about only two abreast during a passing manoeuvre. This is fine unless your passing pack riders, or some drafting loser who pulls out as you're passing without looking. What're you supposed to do? Drop back and get a blue card? Never pass pack riders?

Doca wrote:
I cant understand why you would pull out of the race.
You have done months of training & expense to pay for & get to the event which is absolutely mint by the way. At the end of the day the only real difference a DQ makes is your name is not on the results. Your Gamin will give you your race time which is good enough for your Facebook mates and you still get your Strava Kudos.

Unless your at the pointy end or wanting to qualify for Kona I don't see that it's such a big deal. Very poor form for quiting in my book.


I don't know about you but for me IM is mentally really tough, tough enough. An apparently unfair DQ is going to come at you like a big ~#*$ Off right when you don't want it. If you're allowed to continue and have the mental resilience, good on you, but I can see why one might throw the toys out of the pram.
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fruit thief




Joined: 18 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard luck. It's only a parlour game on wheels though. Disqualification sounds harsh but usually best to let these things go. Dwelling on it is only going to make you feel wound up. What's next?
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MrTim




Joined: 20 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
I've got a lot of sympathy for the OP. Sometimes the rules imagine a perfect race, not what happens in a real bike leg.


Seems to always be the case in non-drafting events. I don't think I've ever done a tri where it would be possible to follow the rules to the letter without doubling your bike time. Probably doable at the pointy end, but not as a mid-pack racer!
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lxpyke




Joined: 13 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I have had time to calm down and reflect, I think I did the right thing by pulling out. I still have options to race and chase the time that I want.
I don't have to recover from a race with a unrecorded result and I can be getting straight back into training.

I was aiming at a 4.35-4.40 bike split and was well on target at the point I was DQ'd, but a 1.20 swim split is always going to land you in the thick of the cycling mayhem.. so I know what I need to work on.. having only done two proper swim training sessions in the lead up, its nothing but my own fault really.

Onwards and upwards I say, bit of bike racing for the remainder of the year, then back for Austria in 2018...
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SwimsLikeAWalrus




Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 1478

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fat buddha wrote:
Quote:
UK IM events use WTC Rules, albeit with the odd local variation.


you are correct - just checked with a TO doing this weekend's event. I was always under the impression that it was fully run under BTF rules, but as you say it's under IM rules with some BTF rule interpretation.

hopefully in time the ITU and WTC will get those common set of rules (it's getting closer each year) so that these interpretation errors don't occur and we end up in a bugger's muddle


Yes. They are very much becoming closer and closer which can only be a good thing. An example of a local rule would be DSQ for littering here in the UK. WTC Rules IIRC give a 5 min time penalty. Although in reality if you applied BTF rules to your conduct you would not go far wrong. Probably the most important difference is the use of cards for penalties and the repercussions of failure to serve your time Smile
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Old Bob




Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Location: On the way back...

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lxpyke wrote:
So I have had time to calm down and reflect, I think I did the right thing by pulling out. I still have options to race and chase the time that I want.
I don't have to recover from a race with a unrecorded result and I can be getting straight back into training.

I was aiming at a 4.35-4.40 bike split and was well on target at the point I was DQ'd, but a 1.20 swim split is always going to land you in the thick of the cycling mayhem.. so I know what I need to work on.. having only done two proper swim training sessions in the lead up, its nothing but my own fault really.

Onwards and upwards I say, bit of bike racing for the remainder of the year, then back for Austria in 2018...


You know how I feel mate, and gutted for you.... but lesson learned.

But you've worked hard to get in that sort of shape... have you thought about taking it out on the Tenby course? You'll go well there... I reckon Cole is doing it as well?
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