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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2897

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject: For Coppers here Reply with quote

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/15/undercover-police-spies-infiltrated-uk-leftwing-groups-for-decades?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

This Guardian article has shocked me in so many ways. It literally has tied my mind up for a while, in all sorts of ways. But in essence they have published a list of policemen and others who have infiltrated organisations, giving their cover names and years of service.

I mean, for those who are still living is that not a bit of a security risk? Ok you stopped infiltration years ago, but that group now know that you were an informant (fake name used and precise years). They may well have plenty of photos of you from your comrade days, and the internet being what it is.

Clicking through the Guardians links there seems to be quite an organisation exposing all those infiltrators, presumably including current ones.

While I am all for open journalism holding our government to account, I do wonder if this is a step too far. After all lives could be put at risk.

Sorry just had to get that off my chest.

Does anyone know why the Police gave up such detailed information that even I could use to track and find people through grabbing old photos of “Bob Smith my second in command having a beer” and internet searching likenesses (never done it but I think google has a very easy to use feature that does this)? (Added, just realised that hopefully the police haven’t given up any of this, but the sources must be sound enough for the Guardian to publish).

Got to like how one of the first was called GoodMan. Do you think that a senior copper was having a little fun!
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst i don't agree with either the methods, or, in some cases, the targets, it's very easy to pander to the left and add a few virtue signalling brownie points...
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 5287
Location: My happy place

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: For Coppers here Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:


This Guardian article has shocked me in so many ways. It literally has tied my mind up for a while, in all sorts of ways.


I'm pretty sure it didn't.
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2897

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: For Coppers here Reply with quote

FatPom wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:


This Guardian article has shocked me in so many ways. It literally has tied my mind up for a while, in all sorts of ways.


I'm pretty sure it didn't.
and you would be wrong FatPom.
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: For Coppers here Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
FatPom wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:


This Guardian article has shocked me in so many ways. It literally has tied my mind up for a while, in all sorts of ways.


I'm pretty sure it didn't.
and you would be wrong FatPom.


Nah, I'm gonna go with, I'm right. Wink
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2897

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: For Coppers here Reply with quote

FatPom wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
FatPom wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:


This Guardian article has shocked me in so many ways. It literally has tied my mind up for a while, in all sorts of ways.


I'm pretty sure it didn't.
and you would be wrong FatPom.


Nah, I'm gonna go with, I'm right. Wink
FatPom, I could go with ‘the moon is made of green cheese’. Wouldn’t make me right. You might need to consider that you have made an error of judgement here. Not that it really matters, l after all know.

Perhaps you are forgetting I look at a whole range of global affairs from a different perspective to many. Anyhow not worth falling out over. But you really are wrong.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does anyone read the Guardian? A paper that once upon a time took some pride in the quality of the journalism and journalists...

From the above linked article...a couple of paragraphs in...

"..the SWP...advocates the abolition of capitalism through revolutionary means."

and a few paragraphs later...

"...it is unclear why the SWP appears to have been singled out for such intense monitoring."

fek me...
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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Location: My happy place

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: For Coppers here Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
FatPom wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
FatPom wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:


This Guardian article has shocked me in so many ways. It literally has tied my mind up for a while, in all sorts of ways.


I'm pretty sure it didn't.
and you would be wrong FatPom.


Nah, I'm gonna go with, I'm right. Wink
FatPom, I could go with ‘the moon is made of green cheese’. Wouldn’t make me right. You might need to consider that you have made an error of judgement here. Not that it really matters, l after all know.

Perhaps you are forgetting I look at a whole range of global affairs from a different perspective to many. Anyhow not worth falling out over. But you really are wrong.




Very Happy
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2897

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FatPam

Nothing new in that. Wink
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
Posts: 1635
Location: Devon

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clue: 'literally'
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2897

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
clue: 'literally'
gingerbongo......ones mind is full of thoughts. When you think hard, focused on one object, you can consider your mind to be straight and narrow. But when you start to brainstorm, your mind goes off in every direction imaginable, looking for new stuff and interrelationships, building connections and gaining new insights. Hence, your thoughts can literally become tied up in knots as you analyse problems from various directions. Which can be mighty useful for seeing things and connections that others who are more straight lined focused miss.

You can get a knot in your mind when you hence stumble upon a set of issues from a perspective you hadn’t thought of before, and you slowly and surely learn to untie the knot to reveal its secrets.

It can be a lot of fun. As one practical example, you will read on the bbc today that the government are delaying the rollout of universal credit yet again to sort the continuing cock ups and problems out. But, from what is reported, still they are not dealing with the key problems that are causing most induced fear (with consequent suicide and medical consequences) and absolute poverty (homelessness, food banks etc). So while the government is reacting to cock ups and poor policy implementation, which is good, it is still missing some of the main problems that cause human suffering, whether intentionally or negligently. A bit more tying their mind up in knots over these thorny problems may well lead to better governance. I mean, if I can work it out it’s not rocket science. Mind you I have two decades of relevant first hand experience whereas they are just looking at an issue from a flagship policy perspective.

I will put the spade away now.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15745
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
gingerbongo wrote:
clue: 'literally'
gingerbongo......ones mind is full of thoughts. When you think hard, focused on one object, you can consider your mind to be straight and narrow. But when you start to brainstorm, your mind goes off in every direction imaginable, looking for new stuff and interrelationships, building connections and gaining new insights. Hence, your thoughts can literally become tied up in knots as you analyse problems from various directions. Which can be mighty useful for seeing things and connections that others who are more straight lined focused miss.

It can be a lot of fun. As one practical example, you will read on the bbc today that the government are delaying the rollout of universal credit yet again to sort the continuing cock ups and problems out. But, from what is reported, still they are not dealing with the key problems that are causing most induced fear (with consequent suicide and medical consequences) and absolute poverty (homelessness, food banks etc).
I will put the spade away now.


i too remain very concerned about the medical consequences of those who are paying for the welfare of others...

oh, and if the population grows in number, then the poverty figures will rise, however, the rate of absolute poverty continues to fall in the UK and across the world...
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2897

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ejc

Except government policy is inducing real fear into people, and it is causing homelessness and lack of food. There is plenty of evidential support out there, if you look for it, and that, subject to the key drivers of such things changing, will only increase as the rollout continues, causing further absolute poverty in the U.K.

Don’t get me wrong Ejc I actually think that UC is a very good idea, for several reasons. It has just been very poorly implemented, and in places poorly thought out.

Just now the government are trying to manage the fallout from 30 Tory MPs who are beginning to see this. As time passes that number will only increase, unless a rethink happens to deal with those issues. But that hits an ideological wall of a flagship policy. Even the chap who came up with UC has iirc now said that it has been screwed up. Politicians eh, think they know it all. Anyone else inducing fear into so many people would be prosecuted under the Terrorism Act.

But as long as you are ok Ejc, all is good.
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jibberjim




Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Posts: 8332
Location: Kingston

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
clue: 'literally'


Literally has not just had the definition you want since before Dickens, it's always been used exactly in the sense used by our crazy Scot. An intensifier applied to figurative speech.
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 5287
Location: My happy place

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
gingerbongo wrote:
clue: 'literally'


Literally has just had the definition you want since before Dickens, it's always been used exactly in the sense used by our crazy Scot. An intensifier applied to figurative speech.


No it hasn't, it's been adopted by those too lazy to articulate themselves on social media.
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