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r0bh




Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Posts: 1586
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrace wrote:
So that's £330 quid for ~70 minutes, or 4.71 £/minute.

A speedy Triathlon X on 15 hours is £265 = 30 p/minute (24 p/min with early bird discount). My slow X will be sub-20 p/min.

Value for money? Go long, go hard. Smile


The Run Further ultra calendar allows you to sort races by cost per mile Very Happy

http://runfurther.com/ultra-calendar/
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Bluepoolshark




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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It ain't cheap but then what is in this sport....

I for one will have a go at qualifying one day as it isn't often that you get the chance to represent your country when you work full time with families etc.
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Chrace




Joined: 28 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On timings, a guy here in the company represented GB at a sprint a couple of years ago with a 1:08. That to me sounds not very impressive?

I am slow but can do a 1:17 or thereabouts (15/3/34/2/23) and it'd think it should be possible to find 2/4/3 in that (if I actually bothered training for it).

Is that actually the level we're talking to represent?
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gingerbongo




Joined: 21 Sep 2012
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Location: Devon

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bluepoolshark wrote:
It ain't cheap but then what is in this sport....

I for one will have a go at qualifying one day as it isn't often that you get the chance to represent your country when you work full time with families etc.


This is it for me. I have no problem with people wanting to do these races if they want to, regardless of the money. Chances are they're probably pretty cool races, nice venues, setup, international feel etc and you send your money on what you find fun.

... but ...

You are not representing your country. You are not an elite. Yes you qualifed through a race or series of races (and granted some have qualified via much easier paths than others), but you aren't racing for GB. That's what a pro race is. I get the massive sense of achievement for those that have genuinely competed with other quality athletes and worked bl00dy hard to get there. Some of those AG ers are absolute quality, some are on this forum, but they are not professionals.

To my mind, that's the equivalent of winning a local football tournament with my village side and thus 'qualifying' for a place in some invitational tournament abroad in France for example. I am certainly not 'representing Wales/England' or whatever.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14707
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gingerbongo wrote:
Bluepoolshark wrote:
It ain't cheap but then what is in this sport....

I for one will have a go at qualifying one day as it isn't often that you get the chance to represent your country when you work full time with families etc.


This is it for me. I have no problem with people wanting to do these races if they want to, regardless of the money. Chances are they're probably pretty cool races, nice venues, setup, international feel etc and you send your money on what you find fun.

... but ...

You are not representing your country. You are not an elite. Yes you qualifed through a race or series of races (and granted some have qualified via much easier paths than others), but you aren't racing for GB. That's what a pro race is. I get the massive sense of achievement for those that have genuinely competed with other quality athletes and worked bl00dy hard to get there. Some of those AG ers are absolute quality, some are on this forum, but they are not professionals.

To my mind, that's the equivalent of winning a local football tournament with my village side and thus 'qualifying' for a place in some invitational tournament abroad in France for example. I am certainly not 'representing Wales/England' or whatever.


not sure anyone thinks they are elite...nor is it the equivalent of 'winning' a local footie event...it's the same as every single other event you do in that you are racing everyone else on the start line...
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tommy060289




Joined: 08 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
not sure anyone thinks they are elite...nor is it the equivalent of 'winning' a local footie event...it's the same as every single other event you do in that you are racing everyone else on the start line...


I've spent far more time at running events than triathlons over the years with far greater turnouts for the running events and I've only ever met two athletes who have run for GB. I cant think of any triathlons I've been to where there isn't someone mincing about in their GB trisuit, and this year four athletes from out relatively small local tri-club 'raced for GB'.

So either our local club is a hot-bed of talent or the races are a bit of a joke just to allow people to post on facebook that they are representing GB. Sorry but if you struggle to run much below a 30:00 parkrun you shouldn't be seen as representing your country no matter what age category you are in.....
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chickenboy




Joined: 06 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tommy060289 wrote:
Quote:
not sure anyone thinks they are elite...nor is it the equivalent of 'winning' a local footie event...it's the same as every single other event you do in that you are racing everyone else on the start line...


I've spent far more time at running events than triathlons over the years with far greater turnouts for the running events and I've only ever met two athletes who have run for GB. I cant think of any triathlons I've been to where there isn't someone mincing about in their GB trisuit, and this year four athletes from out relatively small local tri-club 'raced for GB'.

So either our local club is a hot-bed of talent or the races are a bit of a joke just to allow people to post on facebook that they are representing GB. Sorry but if you struggle to run much below a 30:00 parkrun you shouldn't be seen as representing your country no matter what age category you are in.....


blimey, who's running 30min 5k's and have access to AG GB kit?
I've never quite understood why you would wear your kit in a non AG ETU/ITU appropriate race. You either become a target for others or you look a bit of a plonker. Outside 'normal hours,' i only wear mine to work and sainsbury's Laughing
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1312

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never quite get the animosity to the AG tri process. Yes, it's a cash cow. And yes, people racing it are not "elite". But they are representing the country. It's an international event with representatives from a number of nations competing against one another. They race in country tri suits and so are racing on that country's behalf and representing it. Whether or not you put any significance on the event or not, is neither here nor there.

It's like saying the Walker Cup is a joke because there's the Ryder Cup. They're just different events for different people.

I represented GB in a minority sport at the university level. I was under no illusion I was miles away from the competitive level, but it was still the pinnacle of what I could achieve at that time. It was a goal and I achieved it, so that gave me satisfaction.

In truth, what is the difference between AG Kona and the 70.3 WC's and the ITU AG system? Not much as far as I can tell, other than it's not based on country representation. But I still know of people who could have got spots to Chatanooga as their AG rolled down over 30 places, so it's hardly like the Ironman branded "AG word champs" are solely for the best of the best of the best. It's still a case of who wants to go, who can afford to go, and who then meets the criteria from that group of people. Yet Kona and 70.3 WC's get "respect" and ITU AG finals don't. I genuinely don't understand.

tommy060289 wrote:
Sorry but if you struggle to run much below a 30:00 parkrun you shouldn't be seen as representing your country no matter what age category you are in.....

That's totally disingenuous to the standard required. I raced the ITU Sprint qualifier at Eton Dorney, not with any real intention to qualify as I'm not at that level, but just to compete against some good athletes and see where I stacked up. I ran sub20, broke 1hr10, and only just made the top 30 in my AG. It might not be elite, but the standard is pretty decent for people who are not pro and also have to have a job.
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tommy060289




Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That's totally disingenuous to the standard required. I raced the ITU Sprint qualifier at Eton Dorney, not with any real intention to qualify as I'm not at that level, but just to compete against some good athletes and see where I stacked up. I ran sub20, broke 1hr10, and only just made the top 30 in my AG. It might not be elite, but the standard is pretty decent for people who are not pro and also have to have a job.


In some AG its reasonably competitive but some AG get places pretty much for turning up as part of the roll down process.

Just looked at the person I was referring to at Dusseldorf and they were over 30 minutes for the run. Looking at the London Marathon results and over a third of the field ran the same pace for an entire marathon in the same Female AG as opposed to running 5 k after a quick swim and bike.

There are some amazing athletes run at these events and I do like to see what people can achieve as an amateur holding down full time jobs as opposed to being a pro athlete as theres something to be said for what people achieve doing their sport as just a hobby but when you have people jumping on the bandwagon also claiming they have achieved a standard where they represent their country it undermines the achievements of others a little I feel.
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SGreg




Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 856
Location: High Peak

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tired to qualify for the 2013 AG Olympic Tri as it was in London.

I failed miserably.


So they are all cu*t$
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JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 210
Location: Worcester, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"When I took up the sport two years ago I didnít imagine for a second then, that, one day I would be able to represent my country internationally."

I think it's quotes like the one above, from Louise Minchin on the BBC that do the whole sport a disservice. I remember when she did Chicago and it was all over the BBC how she'd barely started in the sport and was already representing her country. No mention of course of age groups or where/how she got her place, roll downs etc.

I can see both sides and have friends who compete who are very humble and honest about it but it does also attract some of those described earlier who like to pose as quasi professionals with their "sponsorship" and "ambassador" status.

There was a funny post on ST a while back that coined the term "profamateurs" and discussed some of their behaviours.
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 240

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the objection seems to be that people boast about their achievements on social media (perish the thought).

Actually I think it's more subtle than that. The objection seems to be that people who are not as good at triathlon as "me" are bragging on social media and that means that someone who knows nothing about the sport now thinks I'm not as good as this other guy.

--
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chickenboy




Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 1634

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe the qualification standards need to increase. The winning fella in 45-49 AG at eton qualifier, ( for sprint ITU worlds) ran just over 18mins for 5k with a gradual trickle down towards 20mins for the 10th place. You're potentially considered for roll down if you're with 115% of the winning time.

Maybe the tolerance level needs to be reduced to give qualification more kudos. I guess there is always the risk that this would cull the vast majority and reduce the necessary revenue needed to support British Triathlon.
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FatPom




Joined: 26 Dec 2005
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Location: My happy place

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, the depth of competition will very depend on where the race is being held. It will be easier for GB athletes to get to Worlds on the GC for example, as it's a long way to go and the exch rate is sh1te so there is just not that many people prepared to go. Look at the competition locally in Oz though and it's a different barrel of monkeys.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
Posts: 1312

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FatPom wrote:
It will be easier for GB athletes to get to Worlds on the GC for example, as it's a long way to go and the exch rate is sh1te so there is just not that many people prepared to go.

I'm actually banking on this! I'm not one that would brag or believe it's something that it's not, but the Grand Finals would be a fun race/event/week to be a part of and with it being in Australia, for me, the expense actually becomes more justifiable. I can make a much larger holiday out of it, get to race somewhere pretty cool, go visit one of my best mates from uni who emigrated a number of years ago (I've not been out to see him in about 6 years) and I know a number of my club will be there, as some already qualified at Leeds, meaning a good group and fun atmosphere.

I see it as a one off and not something I would look to try and qualify for every year like some. Getting the tri suit would also double down cost wise if I got a spot at the multisport championships in Denmark. I want to do that for the novelty of the O3 distance. They tend to have an open wave (they have one at Penticton) so even if I didnt get an AG spot on application, I'm intending to try and race it anyway.
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