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Killer cyclist on trial for manslaughter
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You only had to hear the defence lawyer supporting the husband after sentencing, to know that the defence was not exactly all guns blazing for the defendant.

It's a tragic occurence undoubtedly, but had the end result been the same and he had a front brake, then he would never have been in court.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

would he have a case for an incompetent defence?
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fat buddha




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
would he have a case for an incompetent defence?


would the solicitor have a case for an incompetent client?? Wink

it's not unknown for defendants to go against the advice of their solicitor in court and blow any reasonable chance of a win
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Whisk




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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
You only had to hear the defence lawyer supporting the husband after sentencing, to know that the defence was not exactly all guns blazing for the defendant.

It's a tragic occurence undoubtedly, but had the end result been the same and he had a front brake, then he would never have been in court.


If the cyclist had been going through a red light at the time, I suspect the manslaughter charge might have got a result.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
You only had to hear the defence lawyer supporting the husband after sentencing, to know that the defence was not exactly all guns blazing for the defendant.

It's a tragic occurence undoubtedly, but had the end result been the same and he had a front brake, then he would never have been in court.


If the cyclist had been going through a red light at the time, I suspect the manslaughter charge might have got a result.


How's that relevant to the lacklustre defence though? He never went through a red light.
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DrClean




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone knowingly goes on the road with an illegal vehicle and causes the death of a pedestrian - and people feel sorry for him?

I would hope that anyone going through a red light on a bike and causing death or serious injury to a pedestrian would get similar treatment.

Just think if he had hit your child/mother/wife/husband/grandparent and done the same damage, what would you want to happen? The full force of the law or a "there but for the grace of god" get out?

Happy that he's off the road and in jail - he had absolutely no remorse and would probably have done the same again. He appears to be part of the "I can do anything I want whenever I want generation" of over indulged children we are increasingly seeing turn into adults.

Rant over.
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blindcider




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrClean wrote:
Someone knowingly goes on the road with an illegal vehicle and causes the death of a pedestrian - and people feel sorry for him?

I would hope that anyone going through a red light on a bike and causing death or serious injury to a pedestrian would get similar treatment.

Just think if he had hit your child/mother/wife/husband/grandparent and done the same damage, what would you want to happen? The full force of the law or a "there but for the grace of god" get out?

Happy that he's off the road and in jail - he had absolutely no remorse and would probably have done the same again. He appears to be part of the "I can do anything I want whenever I want generation" of over indulged children we are increasingly seeing turn into adults.

Rant over.


Its not about feeling sorry for him. I have massive sympathy for the family of the lady killed which is a horrible situation for them to be in. Also I don't think there is any real evidence that he knew it was actually illegal to not have an additional brake.

My concerns are more about the misapplication of the full force of the law, the application of an archaic law, the fact that a manslaughter charge was ever placed, the disproportionate response compared to motorists in the same situation, and the reduction in personal responsibility (stepping out into the road whilst not paying attention).

Being an unremorseful twat should be irrelevant to the rule of law and you appear to be applying shovel loads of personal bias in your last paragraph.

As for if he had hit one of my relatives - part of the point of our law system is that it is dispassionate and objective - retributive justice is not a positive thing for society as a whole.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite^. He's bang-to-rights for not having a brake and thus an illegal bike. However, the defence made very little (if anything) of the fact-based argument that the brake would probably have had little value in this instance i.e. we are much more likely to swerve than brake, and that with the stopping distance and reaction times involved, it may have meant the tragic incident was unavoidable.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am not sure that anyone has shown him any sympathy on here.

It would appear that our legal system is beginning to play politics resulting in inconsistencies in its application...this alarms me greatly...

i am also concerned about the general decline in personal responsibility...
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SidSnot




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This just popped up on the local rag. The cyclist(Ben) collided with a pedestrian who stepped onto the road, cyclist died, pedestrian lived

Quote:
"But I spoke to police officers who said if Ben had survived and was healthy there would be a chance that he would be prosecuted as a road user.

And yet there is no comeuppance for a pedestrian."


http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/cyclist-could-been-prosecuted-survived-13586863
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did hear recently on the radio that people and society were getting more 'angry'. In line with this, people need demographic groups to be angry at. Obviously the DM is the go-to for jaundiced reporting.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I did hear recently on the radio that people and society were getting more 'angry'. In line with this, people need demographic groups to be angry at. Obviously the DM is the go-to for jaundiced reporting.
Jorgan at risk of upsetting you, this is in essence 'what I do'.

Not get angry! Well hopefully not that often. But....

Feel the energy threads and changes theirin around our planet, as they affect you, me, individuals, organisations, nations etc.

Yes people are getting more angry, globally, and have been for at least a couple of decades now, and it is evidencing itself in many different ways, including such seemingly obscure things as its influence on global obesity through resulting frustration from the consequences of anger, to the election of President Trump.

The anger of people could easily sleepwalk us into another war, though I don't think that is imminent. But it could aid bringing down our current government within the next five years.

I don't need to 'hear this on the radio' I could teach on this subject.

Wink
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I did hear recently on the radio that people and society were getting more 'angry'. In line with this, people need demographic groups to be angry at. Obviously the DM is the go-to for jaundiced reporting.


or the guardian for that opposite side of the jaundice spectrum...

people have always got angry at groups, it is just that the groups have changed and the means of communicating and acting out that anger have become more efficient...
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
I did hear recently on the radio that people and society were getting more 'angry'. In line with this, people need demographic groups to be angry at. Obviously the DM is the go-to for jaundiced reporting.
Jorgan at risk of upsetting you, this is in essence 'what I do'.

Not get angry! Well hopefully not that often. But....

Feel the energy threads and changes theirin around our planet, as they affect you, me, individuals, organisations, nations etc.

Yes people are getting more angry, globally, and have been for at least a couple of decades now, and it is evidencing itself in many different ways, including such seemingly obscure things as its influence on global obesity through resulting frustration from the consequences of anger, to the election of President Trump.

The anger of people could easily sleepwalk us into another war, though I don't think that is imminent. But it could aid bringing down our current government within the next five years.

I don't need to 'hear this on the radio' I could teach on this subject.

Wink


i am still surprised at the energy people waste at proclaiming their anger at Trump's election...if they directed even a small amount to understanding the reasons why he was elected and then doing something about ensuring they are not repeated, the world would potentially be in a far better place...
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Whisk




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I did hear recently on the radio that people and society were getting more 'angry'. In line with this, people need demographic groups to be angry at. Obviously the DM is the go-to for jaundiced reporting.


Probably a bit rich saying this on an internet forum, but I don't think the internet helps this. People are much more likely to be rude and aggressive on-line than they ever would be if they had to say things face to face to someone. In just the same way, people will happily cut someone up or pull out in front of them in their car when they are in a protective metal box and they can ignore the other human beings and their reactions around them Wink
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