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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2219
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:44 pm    Post subject: Short course training Reply with quote

So I'm nearly keen on training again, our newborn has been an angel, I've settled in with a new client and I'm doing a bit or SBR on work days keeping the weekend free.

My best sprint result was 1:18 during 2016 Ironman training, I'd like to see if I can beat that on lower volumes next year. My weight dropped to 77Kg that season as well so I think I'll need to achieve that too.

S: 0:13:51
B: 0:35:27
R: 0:24:58

Run has long been my weakest sport, that sprint split is also my fastest 5k. I think I can get to 30min on the bike given I've done 16km in 24:15. And that swim could lose a bit if I've done 1900m in 33min.

I'm building the aerobic with my commute bike (47km +630m each way) once per week. Will add in trainerroad for interval sessions. Keeping the swim ticking over with a weekly 30 min swim on Eastbourne beach followed by a 5km run. Add to that a weekly hilly 5k at lunch time, and a weekly 10k club run that I want to use to ramp up from 9-9:30 pace all the way down to 8 min miles.

So that's about 4.5-7.5hrs per week.

Racing - I've got an olympic in a couple of weeks, I'm expecting a tragic 3:30 result there. But sprints are so short, I've got a route out of my local pool I can test myself on, of a friday night until next season when the OceanLakeTri series starts.

Anyone else focussed on short course?

Anyone know anything about short course training that isn't for complete tri beginners?
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Iron '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39!, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14483
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, lots... Smile
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2219
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
yes, lots... Smile


Let's hear it then...
_________________
Iron '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39!, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1136
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reality is, for all but the most competitive of the field, training adjustments arent really required, you arent becoming a sprinter, you are still looking at an endurance event.
To give a personal example...I am just a runner these days (although maybe a return to tri next year). I trained for a marathon in April and have focused on 5k-10k races since then. The only thing that has changed really is i dropped the regular long runs, and average lower weekly mileage (lifestyle choice), although still manage a 20-25 k easy run once a month ish. Hard interval and tempo sessions are still just that... hard.. so where i would be doing them once or twice a week to run a marathon, they were already at an intensity that wouldnt really allow me to run that fast any more often. That hasnt changed too much to focus on 5/10k although the coach at the running club has had me doing faster, shorter reps with more recovery as opposed to my staple 6x1k off 90s for example.

Personally i wouldnt overthink it.. if you werent already doing interval stuff, then maybe think about (carefully) introducing it.. and if you were.. you could maybe think about upping the intensity of the intervals ...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14483
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
yes, lots... Smile


Let's hear it then...


swim faster, bike faster, run faster....

a general q gets a general a
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14483
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:
The reality is, for all but the most competitive of the field, training adjustments arent really required, you arent becoming a sprinter, you are still looking at an endurance event.
To give a personal example...I am just a runner these days (although maybe a return to tri next year). I trained for a marathon in April and have focused on 5k-10k races since then. The only thing that has changed really is i dropped the regular long runs, and average lower weekly mileage (lifestyle choice), although still manage a 20-25 k easy run once a month ish. Hard interval and tempo sessions are still just that... hard.. so where i would be doing them once or twice a week to run a marathon, they were already at an intensity that wouldnt really allow me to run that fast any more often. That hasnt changed too much to focus on 5/10k although the coach at the running club has had me doing faster, shorter reps with more recovery as opposed to my staple 6x1k off 90s for example.

Personally i wouldnt overthink it.. if you werent already doing interval stuff, then maybe think about (carefully) introducing it.. and if you were.. you could maybe think about upping the intensity of the intervals ...


i think that the first point is a little confusing...advocating no change and then change...

the second, i assume you mean with 90 secs recovery interval rather than off 90 secs which would be mighty impressive....

thirdly, i assume you mean upping the intensity of the reps...
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 1136
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes sorry... 90s rest interval, more intensity in reps. D- must try harder Wink
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twhat wrote:
Yes sorry... 90s rest interval, more intensity in reps. D- must try harder Wink


Smile
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2219
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it's all unstructured now really, I won't be setting a formal plan until the spring, it's more about getting ready for shorter distance training.

As we go into winter I expect my outdoor rides to become indoor, shorter/harder as will the swim. Not sure if I'll switch to focus on swim, or try to improve running through the coldest months.

Spring I'll probably do the low volume sprint TrainerRoad plan, which includes run intervals.

I can't remember why I didn't focus on run last season, seduced by bike probably, but I think I should for 2018. Getting down to 48 mins for 10k would sort out a lot of my tri results.
_________________
Iron '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39!, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14483
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
Well it's all unstructured now really, I won't be setting a formal plan until the spring, it's more about getting ready for shorter distance training.

As we go into winter I expect my outdoor rides to become indoor, shorter/harder as will the swim. Not sure if I'll switch to focus on swim, or try to improve running through the coldest months.

Spring I'll probably do the low volume sprint TrainerRoad plan, which includes run intervals.

I can't remember why I didn't focus on run last season, seduced by bike probably, but I think I should for 2018. Getting down to 48 mins for 10k would sort out a lot of my tri results.


i thought you were targeting sprint...
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Tin Pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 2219
Location: Bromley

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
Well it's all unstructured now really, I won't be setting a formal plan until the spring, it's more about getting ready for shorter distance training.

As we go into winter I expect my outdoor rides to become indoor, shorter/harder as will the swim. Not sure if I'll switch to focus on swim, or try to improve running through the coldest months.

Spring I'll probably do the low volume sprint TrainerRoad plan, which includes run intervals.

I can't remember why I didn't focus on run last season, seduced by bike probably, but I think I should for 2018. Getting down to 48 mins for 10k would sort out a lot of my tri results.


i thought you were targeting sprint...


Yes, but will be running further than 5km in training.
_________________
Iron '16 14h30
Half Iron '17 7h39!, 6h28 '16 5h53
Olympic '16 3h18 '15 3h33, '13 3h36
Sprint '16 1h17, '14 1h40, '13 2h01
Half Mara '16 2h04, '14 2h07
10 Mile TT '16 00:26:30
Trail 10K '16 54:01 '13 54:46
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14483
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
Well it's all unstructured now really, I won't be setting a formal plan until the spring, it's more about getting ready for shorter distance training.

As we go into winter I expect my outdoor rides to become indoor, shorter/harder as will the swim. Not sure if I'll switch to focus on swim, or try to improve running through the coldest months.

Spring I'll probably do the low volume sprint TrainerRoad plan, which includes run intervals.

I can't remember why I didn't focus on run last season, seduced by bike probably, but I think I should for 2018. Getting down to 48 mins for 10k would sort out a lot of my tri results.


i thought you were targeting sprint...


Yes, but will be running further than 5km in training.


at 10k race pace?
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PCP




Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 1614
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert by any means but I'd suggest you do lots of 25 and 50 hard reps in the pool, lots of threshold and max efforts on the bike (I'm sure TR will dial this in for you) then a track session or 2 and a tempo run and a longer run.

To go faster you need to go faster. Or something like that
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14483
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCP wrote:
I'm no expert by any means but I'd suggest you do lots of 25 and 50 hard reps in the pool, lots of threshold and max efforts on the bike (I'm sure TR will dial this in for you) then a track session or 2 and a tempo run and a longer run.

To go faster you need to go faster. Or something like that


pretty much, yes...but with a few other things thrown in too...
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Jan




Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 883
Location: Marlborough

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Park Runs are great for speed work & motivation should you need it.
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