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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2601

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What ever country you are in, no government wants to loose power and control of its territory. In some countries dissenters are tolerated, in others tortured.

However it is also an evident historical fact that when people collectively get to the point of ‘enough is enough’ they will react, whether peaceful protests or revolution.

Again, in my opinion, the problem is one of divergent ‘energy flows’ between the people of Catalonia and the government of Spain.

It’s the same fundamental process that is working globally, in many countries.

Beyond that I don’t have a clue re Catalonia. It’s not an area that has impacted me and have little other insight into it.

But I can tell you that it’s (take a deep breath folks) ‘energy threads’ resonate with others throughout Britain and Europe, so what happens there could impact us directly like tuning forks. That said I am not sensing any huge impact so far, but that is with very low confidence as I just haven’t really connected with it.

I just hope that wisdom prevails and that people seek a win win solution. For what is for sure is that those energies won’t just evaporate away, if not healed they will fester to explode at a later date.

Again pity that I wasn’t in the 0.0001% as my global travels, experience and training could then have helped me get a better grasp on more global problems. But then again had I been born rich I probably would not have gained the necessary life experience to pierce through the veils as effectively.

Let wisdom prevail.
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GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
which is all well and good until it starts working against you...

so, by no fault of their own, some people are born into a country where they can't even offer a united opinion on determination...

how sad is that...a similarity to the Kurds springs to mind...


Its not 'working against you' in the slightest - they live in a democracy and aren't the majority view - when a minority doesn't get what it wants, it is not being 'oppressed' but is just a minority which does not rule over the majority. Too many minorities scream about not getting their own way - well tough.

There is no obligation in democracy, for everyone to get their own way - its a logical impossibility. There is no rule which says that there must be a united opinion on anything.

That's the inner snowflake in your talking Very Happy
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
which is all well and good until it starts working against you...

so, by no fault of their own, some people are born into a country where they can't even offer a united opinion on determination...

how sad is that...a similarity to the Kurds springs to mind...


Its not 'working against you' in the slightest - they live in a democracy and aren't the majority view - when a minority doesn't get what it wants, it is not being 'oppressed' but is just a minority which does not rule over the majority. Too many minorities scream about not getting their own way - well tough.

There is no obligation in democracy, for everyone to get their own way - its a logical impossibility. There is no rule which says that there must be a united opinion on anything.

That's the inner snowflake in your talking Very Happy


Not at all, denying them the right to express their opinions is oppression. i have advocated nothing further than that
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't suppose anyone likes loosing anything....
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
i don't suppose anyone likes loosing anything....
except virginity possibly!
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
i don't suppose anyone likes loosing anything....
except virginity possibly!


How does one be a loose virgin
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GrahamO




Joined: 10 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
denying them the right to express their opinions is oppression. i have advocated nothing further than that


They have had their chance to express their opinions. They have made it very clear they want out and the majority of Spain have said they aren't getting it - previous referenda confirmed the view of the whole of the Spanish people that no part would be permitted to split off. So because teh Catalans didnt get what the little snowflakes wanted, they decided the break the law and ignore the bits they didnt agree with. Life isnt like that.

A referendum is much more than that - its a blatant attempt to declare independence in defiance of the law. They are no better than the nutjob 'sovereign citizens' they have in the US.

Try declaring independence for your household while in the UK and see how far that gets you.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
denying them the right to express their opinions is oppression. i have advocated nothing further than that


They have had their chance to express their opinions. They have made it very clear they want out and the majority of Spain have said they aren't getting it - previous referenda confirmed the view of the whole of the Spanish people that no part would be permitted to split off. So because teh Catalans didnt get what the little snowflakes wanted, they decided the break the law and ignore the bits they didnt agree with. Life isnt like that.

A referendum is much more than that - its a blatant attempt to declare independence in defiance of the law. They are no better than the nutjob 'sovereign citizens' they have in the US.

Try declaring independence for your household while in the UK and see how far that gets you.


No. A referendum without constitution is a desire for independence, nothing more, nothing less. Very easy to understand.

There's an interesting comparison closer to home.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have added, a referendum, without constitution,is a desire for the result of that referendum. Nothing more, nothing less

That's the inner fascist offering insult before the debate is won.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
i don't suppose anyone likes loosing anything....
except virginity possibly!


How does one be a loose virgin


I suppose that technically it is possible.

You can lead a horse to a dictionary etc...
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Tony Stark




Joined: 26 Apr 2007
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Location: Milton Keynes

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
W... my global travels, experience and training...

For the agnostics amongst us, remind us of when and where some of these extensive foreign enlightenments took place, starting with the most recent?
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
No. A referendum without constitution is a desire for independence, nothing more, nothing less. Very easy to understand.

There's an interesting comparison closer to home.


No, you keep ignoring the simple fact that the constitution, which was voted upon, declared such referenda illegal.

You then ignore that the people of Spain voted to stay as one, not to have the country broken up.

You seem to think that Catalonia can ignore the laws of the country and behave as it wants.

Its the child having a tantrum because the family says one thing and the child wants another

Its nothing like at home as nothing that is happening in the UK is illegal, everyone of the whole got a vote and the majority voted for one thing which is happening.

The UK equivalent would be London declaring itself a sovereign state because it didnt like the Brexit vote..
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony Stark wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:
W... my global travels, experience and training...

For the agnostics amongst us, remind us of when and where some of these extensive foreign enlightenments took place, starting with the most recent?
Tony, place that phrase back into the sentence, it starts....”Again pity that I wasn’t in the 0.00001% as my global travels etc....could then have.”

My point is that given my desire to understand our world as a whole, had I been born into UHNW I would have no doubt already have a lifetime of globetrotting at a level where ‘money opens doors’. (hence my words ‘pity that I wasn’t”)

Apologies for not being sufficiently clear. The only places I have been are holidays in Egypt, Malta, France and Netherlands.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've never had any money but have been to 50 odd countries...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GrahamO wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
No. A referendum without constitution is a desire for independence, nothing more, nothing less. Very easy to understand.

There's an interesting comparison closer to home.


No, you keep ignoring the simple fact that the constitution, which was voted upon, declared such referenda illegal.

You then ignore that the people of Spain voted to stay as one, not to have the country broken up.

You seem to think that Catalonia can ignore the laws of the country and behave as it wants.

Its the child having a tantrum because the family says one thing and the child wants another

Its nothing like at home as nothing that is happening in the UK is illegal, everyone of the whole got a vote and the majority voted for one thing which is happening.

The UK equivalent would be London declaring itself a sovereign state because it didnt like the Brexit vote..



Legislating against opinion is an act of oppression, whether voted for by a majority or not.

Like many places, the boundaries are arbitrary and formed over years of conquest.

A similar example in the UK is in what has now become Ireland and Northern Ireland
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