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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject: Taking one for the team Reply with quote

http://road.cc/content/news/230988-jiffy-bag-doctor-resigns-british-cycling-due-ill-health
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PhilleusPhogg




Joined: 11 May 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Taking one for the team Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
http://road.cc/content/news/230988-jiffy-bag-doctor-resigns-british-cycling-due-ill-health


Interesting.

If there is worse stuff going on behind the scenes, sooner or later one of these folks who've taken one for the team will presumably do a Tyler Hamilton and realize there's a lot of books to be sold off the back of it.

On the other hand, if nothing ever comes out in the future, then surely that kind of speaks for itself right?
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Taking one for the team Reply with quote

PhilleusPhogg wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
http://road.cc/content/news/230988-jiffy-bag-doctor-resigns-british-cycling-due-ill-health


Interesting.

If there is worse stuff going on behind the scenes, sooner or later one of these folks who've taken one for the team will presumably do a Tyler Hamilton and realize there's a lot of books to be sold off the back of it.

On the other hand, if nothing ever comes out in the future, then surely that kind of speaks for itself right?


Yes on the first point, no on the second...or not necessarily...the UK's ineptness at dealing with these things may stop that from happening...
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Buzz_




Joined: 19 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an interesting defence - there's no way GB teams can be cheating because they are just not good enough to do it without getting caught. It's also the most unbelievable part of the British Cycling story for me, the one thing they were supposed to be good at was the small details, and yet lack medical records and not backing up data is being used as a defence. Either your systems are world leading or they're not, make you're mind up.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
It's an interesting defence - there's no way GB teams can be cheating because they are just not good enough to do it without getting caught. It's also the most unbelievable part of the British Cycling story for me, the one thing they were supposed to be good at was the small details, and yet lack medical records and not backing up data is being used as a defence. Either your systems are world leading or they're not, make you're mind up.


they have been #@?# all along...for obvious reasons they keep very detailed notes; they have just been selected as to what they have made public.
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hammerer




Joined: 19 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
It's an interesting defence - there's no way GB teams can be cheating because they are just not good enough to do it without getting caught. It's also the most unbelievable part of the British Cycling story for me, the one thing they were supposed to be good at was the small details, and yet lack medical records and not backing up data is being used as a defence. Either your systems are world leading or they're not, make you're mind up.


You can have all the world leading systems you like, but if one person doesnt upload their data, for whatever reason, then its falls apart.
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Roscoemck




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting that the performance coach at BC was sacked 2 weeks ago.

Apparently things are not too rosy in the garden since Park took over.
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Buzz_




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
You can have all the world leading systems you like, but if one person doesnt upload their data, for whatever reason, then its falls apart.

A world leading system should be robust against a single point of failure, especially a human failure. If you can't protect against incompetence, you also can't protect against deliberate cheating.
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buzz_ wrote:
hammerer wrote:
You can have all the world leading systems you like, but if one person doesnt upload their data, for whatever reason, then its falls apart.

A world leading system should be robust against a single point of failure, especially a human failure. If you can't protect against incompetence, you also can't protect against deliberate cheating.



A system is only as good as the humans operating it.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
hammerer wrote:
You can have all the world leading systems you like, but if one person doesnt upload their data, for whatever reason, then its falls apart.

A world leading system should be robust against a single point of failure, especially a human failure. If you can't protect against incompetence, you also can't protect against deliberate cheating.



A system is only as good as the humans operating it.


Indeed. So where were the checks?
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hammerer




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
hammerer wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
hammerer wrote:
You can have all the world leading systems you like, but if one person doesnt upload their data, for whatever reason, then its falls apart.

A world leading system should be robust against a single point of failure, especially a human failure. If you can't protect against incompetence, you also can't protect against deliberate cheating.



A system is only as good as the humans operating it.


Indeed. So where were the checks?


probably sourcing a batch of jiffy bags that week
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hammerer wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
hammerer wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
hammerer wrote:
You can have all the world leading systems you like, but if one person doesnt upload their data, for whatever reason, then its falls apart.

A world leading system should be robust against a single point of failure, especially a human failure. If you can't protect against incompetence, you also can't protect against deliberate cheating.



A system is only as good as the humans operating it.


Indeed. So where were the checks?


probably sourcing a batch of jiffy bags that week


The appropriately named iffy bags....
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something smells a bit iffy.
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Whisk




Joined: 09 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
hammerer wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
hammerer wrote:
You can have all the world leading systems you like, but if one person doesnt upload their data, for whatever reason, then its falls apart.

A world leading system should be robust against a single point of failure, especially a human failure. If you can't protect against incompetence, you also can't protect against deliberate cheating.



A system is only as good as the humans operating it.


Indeed. So where were the checks?


Surely a cheque would leave too much of a paper trail - it would be cash in brown envelopes Wink

Seriously, Sky/BC might have the best technology and sporting expertise at their fingertips, but it's still a relatively small enterprise and it's run to a large extent by people who aren't necessarily from a commercial background. It wouldn't surprise me that much if their data management processes look loose when compared to the organisations that most of us work for.

Funnily enough, there was an article in Cycling Weekly about the changes to coaching staff at BC and "an insider" was complaining that the new performance director was running the high performance programme "more like an office than a cycling team" Rolling Eyes Wink
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whisk wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
hammerer wrote:
Buzz_ wrote:
hammerer wrote:
You can have all the world leading systems you like, but if one person doesnt upload their data, for whatever reason, then its falls apart.

A world leading system should be robust against a single point of failure, especially a human failure. If you can't protect against incompetence, you also can't protect against deliberate cheating.



A system is only as good as the humans operating it.


Indeed. So where were the checks?


Surely a cheque would leave too much of a paper trail - it would be cash in brown envelopes Wink

Seriously, Sky/BC might have the best technology and sporting expertise at their fingertips, but it's still a relatively small enterprise and it's run to a large extent by people who aren't necessarily from a commercial background. It wouldn't surprise me that much if their data management processes look loose when compared to the organisations that most of us work for.

Funnily enough, there was an article in Cycling Weekly about the changes to coaching staff at BC and "an insider" was complaining that the new performance director was running the high performance programme "more like an office than a cycling team" Rolling Eyes Wink


Ah! the cheques and bank balances of running a cycling team.

No coach at that level doesn't use a well honed method of recording data...unless, of course, they don't want it found...
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