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China v Britain like Scotland v England
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Gus




Joined: 07 Sep 2007
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Location: Freezing my nads off in Aberdoom

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and one thing worth adding that the Chinese do, VERY much value that is British - that is our 'culture'.

They absolutely lap up our traditional brands like, say, Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, our designer labels, our historic brands... they see it as a mark of genuine quality and, from a consumer sense, see real value in it.

Likewise they do have a genuine interest in and respect for our culture and history (ironically unlike our own 'elite' and snowflakes). This is why you see so many Chinese around our historic tourist traps.

Although strategically we do not feature in their radar, culturally we most definitely do.

But also just to add - don't write us off so readily, we are still the 5th largest (by GDP) country in the world with historic relationships across the world. We're no longer pulling the strings, but we still have serious influence behind the scenes.
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
not sure why China are going to look at the unelected and undemocratic elite of the EU and give any reason to change their current cause of action and direction....
not sure that I ever suggested this Ejc. Your interpretation is just that.

In very simple terms..

1. China is rising and now wants to lead the world. It has nearly everything going for it.

2. America is, as all great powers do including in the past Britain, falling, and has been for a decade or two. America may obviously dispute this analysis.

3. As China rises and America falls, there will come a point in time when America realises that it has become a hasbeen and people no longer respond how high when it says jump.

4. That is a dangerous time as it will naturally want to regain its influence, while that is eroding fast. And simultaneously China will be striding forwards.

5. That moment in time is within our lifetime.

6. An effective EU could help balance those two powers as they collide in all sorts of different ways. This will help prevent friction, war and enable a smoother transition of power. From Americaís perspective it will also act as a buffer enabling it to have some breathing space to try to slow down itís relative decline and retain greater power for longer. Again I donít expect America will see it this objectively.

I donít think that I have ever suggested that China will,listen to the EU Ejc. This is a counterbalancing effort between two great powers colliding as America becomes more nationalistic while losing global influence and China rises in all spheres.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i assume you mean martin luther king Jr...and sadly, he needed to use religion to have a voice in the US....and this is something the US culture hasn't been able to shake off since...
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
We're no longer pulling the strings, but we have still have serious influence behind the scenes.
given recent events that is clearly eroding swiftly in both the UN and the EU.

It will erode further as China offers more no questions asked global finance.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not sure he US could ever be more nationalistic...

the EU would have to create an effective model with which to balance anything...currently it has neither the desire nor the wherewithal to achieve that
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In that case Ejc, the most likely outcome is that Russia will fill the void and act as the balance.

Nothing against Russia, but I would obviously prefer it to be the EU.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why is it do you think that this unelected body would suddenly have your best interests at heart above their own?
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
why is it do you think that this unelected body would suddenly have your best interests at heart above their own?
who the EU?

Assuming you mean the EU, where have I written about my best interests?


1. Remember I look at things, as best I can, from a global perspective.....what is happenening to this planet.

2. I try to pierce trough the short term squabbles and power plays by politicians, and try to look at the bigger picture that is evolving in our world.

3. I donít expect you to understand this ejc, but I have always been concerned with this planet as a whole. Right from my childhood looking out of my bedroom window at the Forth Road and Rail bridges thinking that one day I would get to see them up close.....all the way to today when I am concerned about the stability of this planet when I die in thirty years or so.

4. Now you may be asking why I am able and want to look at things as a Scotsman, a Brit, a European and as an Earthling? Itís a good question, and one that I donít really have an answer for, beyond I just do.

5. Now back to the specifics of the EU, it has the potential to act as a beacon of light in our world again, and I like that. Will it? Who knows? But if it doesnt step up and help balance America and China, then either Russia will or our world could easily enter ww3. A situation that politicians should perhaps be recognising and trying to avoid, instead of looking for career enhancement opportunities.

6. It would have been better if the EU has reformed some years ago, but it didnít, and no one can say that I didnít offer solutions appropriate to the time at the time. But perhaps Brexit will be what it needs to achieve it.

7. I still donít think that Brexit will happen. Not in the real substance over form sense. It might by name, technically and legally, to protect political careers, but in terms of substance I still donít think that it will happen. We will be abiding by the rules, paying the money etc. Just without the votes or influence.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the EU a beacon of light????

For what? unaudited accounts? making negotiations far more complex than they need be? poor administration? double standards? large drinks trollies? wasting 10m euros a month moving offices? an ineffective migration policy? an ineffective refugee policy? over ruling democracy? over ruling their own pay restraint during the worst economic crisis ever? QMV? lack of member nation intelligence sharing? porous borders? greek debt? spanish youth unemployment? the return of both left and right wing fascism?

the list is endless...

there is a great old saying for the rise of the student left in the 60s...before you can put the world in order you have to be able to tidy your own room...
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
the EU a beacon of light????
it was when it was established.

Quote:
For what? unaudited accounts? making negotiations far more complex than they need be? poor administration? double standards? large drinks trollies? wasting 10m euros a month moving offices? an ineffective migration policy? an ineffective refugee policy? over ruling democracy? over ruling their own pay restraint during the worst economic crisis ever? QMV? lack of member nation intelligence sharing? porous borders? greek debt? spanish youth unemployment? the return of both left and right wing fascism?

the list is endless...
indeed over recent decades Ejc, indeed, and as you know I have myself criticised, and offered solutions to some of these very same things.

Quote:
there is a great old saying for the rise of the student left in the 60s...before you can put the world in order you have to be able to tidy your own room...
again indeed. Which is what I hope that I have achieved in my personal life myself since I fell into darkness twenty odd years ago amongst the perfect storm of my wifeís severe illnesses, very young children and running my own business.

I would hope that any organisation who audits me today would see the progress that I have made since that time and the day I literally woke up and decided that Life has to be better than this, asked for help (prayed if you like I am not that religious) and here we are today.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You see Ejc, while I am not that religious myself, though I value all religions, I am a spiritual person, and feel confident to say that:-

1. I asked for Gods help and it was given twenty odd years ago.
2. Some years ago now when I nearly died in hospital either (1) I was hallucinating in a fever spike on hospital drugs or (2) I am only here today because I was asked by God to return, freewill choice. And believe me I was happy to take that final step. But I decided to put my trust in God.
3. And as you know I have inadvertently helped at least two people in two nations return to/find their way to two different established churches. As an aside that impressed the JWs.


So even if I am considered a failure by man, I am reasonably confident that I am valued where it matters most.

Which objectively is quite funny as I am not the religious type.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i cannot reconcile virtue with the surrender of reason and skepticism...

I can pretty much guarantee that you cannot reconcile free will with any god asking you to live..but it would be interesting experiment...

i am not sure why you qualified your statement by saying that JWs found it impressive...unless you hold them up as some form of superior being...
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
i cannot reconcile virtue with the surrender of reason and skepticism...
it may surprise you that I am skeptical of many things Ejc, which is one reason why I can spend years chewing things over, looking at various viewpoints etc.

Quote:
I can pretty much guarantee that you cannot reconcile free will with any god asking you to live..but it would be interesting experiment...
how can you guarantee that Ejc?

I was there, dying. I was ready to take that final step before being asked if I would consider returning. It was one of the most difficult, if not the most difficult decision in my life. Even if I was simply hallucinating in a fever spike.

It was a freewill choice, no pressure. Sort of like ďyou have done enough and are welcome home, but God would like you to consider returningĒ.

The next morning I was as right as rain, and missed the surgeons knifes a few days later due to my improvement (the infection was in my face).


Quote:

i am not sure why you qualified your statement by saying that JWs found it impressive...unless you hold them up as some form of superior being...
far from it, they just did which surprised me. Teach them to knock on my door Wink
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

back to the plot...the EU was established 23 or 24 years ago...so, it was apparently a beacon of light for a while, but for the last couple of decades (80% of its existence) it hasn't been...interesting comment...

Perhaps had you stared out of the window a little less and read some Dostoevsky instead, you may have learnt three important things about this (and other grand projects)...

firstly that the bigger it gets, the further it gets from its people and thus the less it represents them and their needs and the less they have a place in that system;

secondly that there is lots to fear from any utopian vision, it being profoundly anti human (humans thrive on dynamic challenge and uncertainty;

and thirdly, that no matter how well you think you understand the system, the larger that system is, the less likely you will be able to predict the outcome of any interaction.

History tells us that globalism will fail.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

History tells us that (using Scotland as an example)..

1. We lived as Clans bopping other clans in the neighbouring glen over the head.

2. Clans came together to form Scotland.

3. Scotland came together to form the United Kingdom.

4. The UK entered the EU and UN.

That is the natural flow. Yes it is breaking down just now, but that has a lot to do with...

1. Individual,political ambitions

2. A widening gap between the powers that be and the man and woman on the street

3. Insufficient attention to local needs.


From the days of cavemen Ejc, humans have been learning to come together for the common good.

Sadly at the moment darkness has taken hold in the corridors of powers in some places (egos, greed, desire for power etc), but the light will return. Itís a natural never ending cycle of life.
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