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China v Britain like Scotland v England
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
i cannot reconcile virtue with the surrender of reason and skepticism...
it may surprise you that I am skeptical of many things Ejc, which is one reason why I can spend years chewing things over, looking at various viewpoints etc.

Quote:
I can pretty much guarantee that you cannot reconcile free will with any god asking you to live..but it would be interesting experiment...
how can you guarantee that Ejc?

I was there, dying. I was ready to take that final step before being asked if I would consider returning. It was one of the most difficult, if not the most difficult decision in my life. Even if I was simply hallucinating in a fever spike.

It was a freewill choice, no pressure. Sort of like “you have done enough and are welcome home, but God would like you to consider returning”.

The next morning I was as right as rain, and missed the surgeons knifes a few days later due to my improvement (the infection was in my face).



what happened to your skepticism?
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“Even if I was hallucinating in a fever spike” seems skeptical to me.
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: China v Britain like Scotland v England Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:


I follow a couple of Western bloggers who live in China
...
He apologised to me, and explained that even us Brits have done bad things to China, and I am guessing that he is referring to the opium wars et all. But he also said that we Brits tried to ruin the Beijing Olympics.



Have you heard of the great firewall of china?

The Chinese government monitors any and all social media posts coming out of its country. They have a huge swathe of employees posting on social media to promote The Party.

Any dissent posted by someone in china is liable to face some kind of punishment.

In the West we know that China is a #@?# inhumane society - surprisingly The Party don't like us saying that. If you are a Chinese citizen, it's likely that all you know about the West is what The Party wants you to think.
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:


6. An effective EU .


A contradiction in terms - the EU will never be effective as its enshrined mediocrity driven by the lowest common denominator.
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tin pot




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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if anyone here has tried working with European management - it's a ~#*$ nightmare. Worse than US management.

I'm very much for open borders and free trade, and Inlove foreigners coming here, but my experience in business doesn't give me great confidence in any kind of political union.
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Tony Stark




Joined: 26 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my 30 years or working in and with Chinese, I have yet to see any kind of truly home-grown innovation or potential. They steal ideas, modify them, and bodge solutions, or buy-in foreign expertise, but I can't think of anything they have come up with on their own. The lowest quality they can get away with is the default unless they are caught out and forced/embarrassed into producing something better and explicitly shown how to do it. The only reason companies like Foxcon produce i-products etc. of good quality is because they are designed and engineered elsewhere and the workforce are externally managed and beaten (figuratively and in some cases literally) into producing acceptable output. Their planes, cars, ships, clothes, software etc. are all sh1t and will not match the way Japanese products developed in the next 2 generations at least (personally I think never). Meanwhile we are busy turning our own products (hardware and software) to garbage by taking on the non-innovative quality-blind workers from India/China within our own industries because they are cheap. Banking software for example is a disastrous mess because of the prevalence of Indian code-monkeys. Warehousing/distribution and transport is also descending as the East-Europeans and Africans become embedded in the system and take control of the lower and middle rungs of the ladder, undoing all the improvements and quality-gains of the last few decades.

I am glad 'God' was able to save SS. Shame he wasn't so benevolent towards the 200K odd ardent believers wiped out during the last Tsunami, but I guess they just didn't believe and pray quite hard enough, whereas he had better reason to save a previously less fervent follower on our own shores. Mysterious ways indeed!
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
“Even if I was hallucinating in a fever spike” seems skeptical to me.


if you were skeptical you would have reservations about an miracle that occurred in your favour...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tin Pot wrote:
free trade, .


where is the free trade?
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony Stark wrote:

I am glad 'God' was able to save SS. Shame he wasn't so benevolent towards the 200K odd ardent believers wiped out during the last Tsunami, but I guess they just didn't believe and pray quite hard enough, whereas he had better reason to save a previously less fervent follower on our own shores. Mysterious ways indeed!


i thought he did it from his own free will which is equally implausible...
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Jorgan




Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donald Trump
Vladamir Putin
The Communist Party of China
The EU

.....pick your 'beacon of light' Smile
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Donald Trump
Vladamir Putin
The Communist Party of China
The EU

.....pick your 'beacon of light' Smile


you missed out Hillary Clinton
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geepers

Given that I am not a religious person, finding myself about to take that final step and being asked to consider returning was quite a shock. But as I say it could have been a fever spike hospital drug induced hallucination.

If it hasn’t happened to you I understand how barmy that sounds, but to me it was as real as apple pie, even if it was just brain chemically fighting fever.

Why the bile? I have explored the medical and religious sides of this, and unsurprisingly they take different views. I only mentioned it for context in response to a question.

Give a bloke a break.

Re freewill, it was and is perfectly reconcilable as explained above. I could have said no thanks I am outa here and finished that final step.

And re skeptical, do you not think that I have actively questioned this, researched this etc? Perhaps wasn’t helped by an Islamic Nurse the following day? understanding my experience! My doctor asked me to write a paper on it, as this sort of stuff is researched locally. Near death white light type of experiences.

If I was religious I could understand your concerns. But religion, while I see it’s value, isn’t my thing.

Ejc is your life ambition to give me grief?

Anyone anything else useful to say on China’s attitude to Britain?
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't read any bile above, just observations on your posts...

the intent may have been to discuss China and Britain, but the asides have all been yours to, I can only assume, validate or enhance your argument...

the original topic did prompt some interesting responses but you chose not to pick up on some of those....there was some learning to be done..

Bringing speaking to your god and free will into the thread has taken it in a different, and possibly more accessible, direction.....and surely you expected this to elicit a response?

I am sure anyone who speaks to their god believes it to be real, i don't care too much about that, however, i find your conversation with a god no more plausible than that which gives some people priority over others, oppresses women, supports war (thank heavens god was on the losing side in both world wars) and encourages any form of power on earth (people can have what ever they believe they get afterwards)...

Free will is probably a far more interesting topic which is well worth debating. The recent enhances in science are astonishingly good, yet simple, but to effectively debate these Sloggers you have got to free yourself from this paranoia that an opposing view is anything other than that.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:



From the days of cavemen Ejc, humans have been learning to come together for the common good.

.



the clue to the answer is in a previous post....just because you perceive it to be a common good does not:

a. mean that it is

and

b. mean that you understand the probable outcome
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tin pot




Joined: 08 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Tin Pot wrote:
free trade, .


where is the free trade?


I have no idea - I've not been allowed to do business in Europe without setting up a local business entity. That's not free trade in my book.
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