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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus

Thank you.

I will therefore keep this in mind.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

Re Cameronís policies, you could argue that by design they are to induce fear, (through non existent targets that staff have to meet (drs have resigned over this),


SloggingScotsman wrote:
Ejc

Now even I can tell that you are taking the rise. Evil or Very Mad


i get the feeling that you know what you think you have written, rather than what you have actually written....which makes you a very ineffective communicator, especially when you have information that your audience simply cannot know...

I really have no idea how staff can be made to meet targets that are non existent. Does this mean that there are targets that are not made public or does this mean that these targets do exist but are unclear. I think what you mean is that the targets are not achievable, but that would mean that targets do exist...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
GrahamO

I am willing to stake my reputation on the fact that the Conservative will not only collapse, the process is already underway, for reasons I have explained before. Even in rural Oxfordshire there is more talk of how things have got too bad in these regards, and this is Tory heartland. Cameron territory. I donít know whether it is true or not but I have heard, some time ago, on the old grapevine that my mp has been worried about his job and this is a safe seat.

Itís profumo all over again.

The last polls I looked at showed Corbyn being more highly rated than May.

Donít take this out of context GrahamO, the only party that I have ever been a member of is the Tories, and I am unsure what to think of a labour government.

The Torys are in internal turmoil, power battles, Brexit issues, the welfare reconsideration by some, and the public voted with their feet, and now Corbyn is out polling May, or labour the Torys I forget which offhand.

The Torys energies are evaporating away.

Would be interesting to see how they could turn around all these internal issues and falling public respect and confidence.


this has no similarities with Profumo whatsoever....it is the usual reaction to tough love...people don't like being told that they can't have more...
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:


So I suspect any recce function will still rely upon the good old pencil/paper for a very, very long time yet Wink


digital camera
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Gus




Joined: 07 Sep 2007
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Location: Freezing my nads off in Aberdoom

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Gus wrote:


So I suspect any recce function will still rely upon the good old pencil/paper for a very, very long time yet Wink


digital camera


Yep.

I also didn't bring in the dimension of 'time'. Much of the recce work isn't just geographical 'mapping', it's also mapping movement...
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ejc

Ineffective communicator, I can live with that.

Re targets, a few years back amongst the resignations and whistleblowers it was widely reported.

1. The government says that there are no targets, or quotas. Just fair assessments.

2. Doctors said thatís not what they are told and risk loosing the jobs if they didnít fail a certain number of people in a week, regardless of their medical condition. At least one doctor resigned because of this and went public. Itís perhaps one reason why they have struggled to recruit doctors and now mainly use physiotherapists etc. Itís a matter of ethics, doctors ethics being different to government ethics.

3. Jobcentre whistleblowers have said similar re sanctions, if you donít sanction enough you get disciplined, so arguably and reportedly they have to look for easy which tend to be vulnerable people to sanction.

4. The government of course deny all of this. When it was in the press there was a Ďwar of wordsí on when a target wasnít a target etc.

The end result is that (and this is even before you look at government errors eg giving wrong dates on appointment letters which I have had personallly) if a staff member is concerned about his performance management, keeping his or her job may take priority. According to whistleblowers.

Now I give you some may have axes to grind etc, but a doctor, he just could not stomach failing people for no proper medical reason beyond his government appointed employer motivating him to do so so that their Ďtargetí could be met.

Itís all in press archives.

Anyhow time to get back to the topic in hand. Chinaís official policy is now effectively to rule the world within our lifetimes. How do you think that America will react? China is also talking about the disgrace of the opium wars and I guess hence the dislike for Britain. Eeek. (Source south China morning post app)
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Gus




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the Conservatives thing... I'm actually starting to get really worried. Contrary to what I've stated before, I'm starting to really believe Corbyn may get into power. I never thought this could happen but the Tories seem to be hell-bent on self-destruction. That last election was a first symptom of a greater mental illness within the party.

The handling of Brexit has just been utterly shocking. May's mismanagement of the Cabinet has been embarrassing. Keeping Hammond, Rudd and the other 'remainers' there has sown division and uncertainty. Might've thought it was a great idea so all sides of the debate were represented, in reality it's just meant constant in-fighting and undermining of any position she's tried to hold. In theory having all views represented in a cabinet is a good thing. In practice, particularly over an issue so passionately divisive, it's a disaster.

I often wonder if it's a complete bloody conspiracy to let Corbyn in - nobody could be that incompetent, surely?

We'll get our Brexit (hopefully) but because she's clearly approaching the negotiation so schizophrenically she's going to end up with a really bad deal especially as the wretched remainers do everything they can to undermine our position at every turn. As a result, I (and so many other grass-roots Tories) will not forgive her or her party and, by default, in swings Corbyn. You only need to see the comments sections of any Tory press to get a flavour of the hatred she's generated against the Tory party now amongst it's formerly loyal followers.

God help us all if Corbyn and his Momentum brown shirts take over.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Gus wrote:


So I suspect any recce function will still rely upon the good old pencil/paper for a very, very long time yet Wink


digital camera


Yep.

I also didn't bring in the dimension of 'time'. Much of the recce work isn't just geographical 'mapping', it's also mapping movement...
that makes it easier as what I am working on is extracting information from paintings, photos etc. Wink Been at it a few years now and just beginning to make some headway, but still years away from practical usefulness (I am still exploring why this painting and not that one etc).

Photos are much more difficult than paintings, and scrawls undoubtedly even more so. But photos are closer to paintings than scrawls.


Last edited by SloggingScotsman on Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus

You are seeing reality Smile

You may well legally get your Brexit, but I seriously doubt you will in reality.

Let me explain.

There is an accounting term Ďsubstance over formí, the reality over the legality. Itís a huge issue in corporate accounts.

Itís also a huge issue in government. You may well get something that legally looks good (Brexit) but probably wonít be that in reality (still paying in, still keeping the rules etc, but without the say).

If Brexit does happen, before you pop the champagne corks just look at itís substsance and ask yourself....ok we have legally brexited, but have we in substance.
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Gus




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Gus

You are seeing reality Smile

You may well legally get your Brexit, but I seriously doubt you will in reality.

Let me explain.

There is an accounting term Ďsubstance over formí, the reality over the legality. Itís a huge issue in corporate accounts.

Itís also a huge issue in government. You may well get something that legally looks good (Brexit) but probably wonít be that in reality (still paying in, still keeping the rules etc, but without the say).

If Brexit does happen, before you pop the champagne corks just look at itís substsance and ask yourself....ok we have legally brexited, but have we in substance.


Oh don't worry, Sloggers, we've all known whatever deal we get will be a 'fudge'. I have always known without any doubt that we will pay a huge bill to leave, just that much of it will be carefully hidden in some form from public knowledge.

Trouble is, if they had kept united in the Cabinet, they could've gotten away with it. As it is they're not, and aren't!

Style over substance - thought we'd left that behind with Bliar.
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus

Just look at the detail and the reality. Audit it.

And if you and your pals celebrate at a Brexit that isnít they ask yourself why?


We need more politicians who are straightforward with people.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Gus

Just look at the detail and the reality. Audit it.

And if you and your pals celebrate at a Brexit that isnít they ask yourself why?


We need more politicians who are straightforward with people.


Audit the EU??? No chance....

Celebrate Brexit? Not really. Celebrate democracy? Yep, almost certainly...
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SloggingScotsman




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus, Ejc

If you celebrate a Brexit that isnít (in substance) does that not equate a bit like to me deciding to get an IM tattoo when I only got half way there? Itís nonsense.

Itís a bit like old finance leases, for the accountants here. Form without substance is pure presentation to look good.

Gus, Ejc encore

You may be interested to know that the Ďmovementsí you noted can also be exploited, by the right person. Itís one of those things that many claim they can do but you donít really see the evidence. I stumbled across this once by accident, though without the resources of gchq I canít check it. However this has given me an insight as to what may be possible. And which others claim that they can do. Though auditing what is publicly available is near impossible.

Now what could the right person, potential exploit re movements:-

1. The motivations of the people coming and going
2. Their home locations (harder and may only be applicable to specific types of people)
3. Connections with others.

Some viewers have published this sort of work, so spooks probably know whether it is accurate of not, but I can only go from what I know first hand (given I canít audit and verify those sessions).

But it is certainly possible to look at images and gain bang on accurate information. What I donít know yet is whether it is by pure luck and chance, or whether there are patterns that can be developed.

The issues:-

1. Is it any more than chance luck?
2. If there are valuable patterns what are they?
3. Why, why, why, this person and those photos and not others?
4. So if you get to the stage that you find the patterns and keys to access, you are still left with the problems of usefulness as those may not be useful in any practical manner.

That all said it is an interesting area to explore, even after a couple of years research. I have a handle on some of the keys, but am still a long way away from usefulness.
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mattsurf




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having recently moved out the UK to Switzerland, watching Brexit and the UK political system implode is rather like watching a car crash

Brexit will take one of 3 forms. The first scenario ďuncontrolled BrexitĒ is where the politicians on both sides refuse to move, this is entirely possible. David Davis says that the exit will be negotiated at 1 minute to midnightÖ. But what if it isnít? What will happen on 29th March 2019? Could it be that British people at airports have to apply for visas to travel to Europe or parts of Europe? These details will be resolved within a couple of months of Brexit, but it could be chaos. Then comes the flow of goods, I am considering buying a Landrover in SwitzerlandÖ but should I? Will Landrover dealers in Europe go out of business after Brexit, after all, nobody knows how much duty they will have to pay on a British made car, and this is already impacting buying decisions in Europe. For me this is the worst possible outcome, and to make matters even worse, Jeremy Corbyn will win the election,

The second scenario is the fudge, Brexit happens, but doesnít happen, there is some vague transitional arrangement, just enough for politicians over here to save face, but bad enough for EU politicians to show that the UK isnít getting a good deal. Economically the deal will be worse than we have today, and will be accompanied with a huge bill, there may be some nominal curbs on migration and some dubious deal on the legal system. It will all be rather sad and pathetic, but life will go on. The sad transition deal will hang over successive governments for many years, with continuous tinkering but very little change as there will be no appetite on either side to come back to negotiations. Neither Brexiteers or Remainers will be happy and the Tories will lose the election.

There is a third (terrifying) option, and probably the only option where the Conservatives will win the next election. In this option the government walks away from negotiations in Jan / Feb 2018, and unilaterally states how much it is prepared to pay the EU, how it will handle migration and how it will handle transition of legal powers, the UK will kick out a load of EU workers (most of whom are leaving anyway as their employers are leaving the UK), and the EU will respond likewise. UK companies then have 12 months to setup functions to deal with customers and exports. We will get visibility of what level of export duty we will pay, UK consumers will also get some heads up for an increase in prices as we will pay import duty on EU goods. Maybe this ďmanagedĒ non-negotiated exit will work well, maybe it will be a complete disaster, we all have opinions, but honestly no one knows:

I am a passionate remain supporter, however, I am beginning to feel that the non-negotiated exit is probably the best option, as long as the decision is made in the next few months; it will be brutal in the short term, and after that no one knows, but it does have the advantage that we can start to get ready while we are still part of the EU. I also feel that this strategy will divide Europe, which also has some advantages. Unfortunately this strategy requires unity in the current government
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

or the fourth option where we realise that we didn't need visas to travel to many countries before the EU, that we were all quite capable of making rational decisions before the EU and that we could all take responsibility for our actions before the EU and can continue to do so afterwards
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