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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: No Sh1t sherlock... Reply with quote

"The association between British Cycling and Team Sky has been a positive force for cycling in this country. However, we accept that the relationship between British Cycling and Team Sky developed rapidly and as a result, at times, resulted in the blurring of the boundaries between the two.
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Jorgan




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Location: alles was ich bin, alles was ich war

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

British Cycling; where "I'll be with you in a Jiffy" has it's own meaning.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

had an interesting chat with an ex pro cyclist yesterday who listed some of the legal chemicals they take that morally are pretty grim...

HammerBlow will be along in a minute to protect the last Mod standing... Smile
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wiggo has just issued a statement.

He's been fully cleared by UKAD.
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
had an interesting chat with an ex pro cyclist yesterday who listed some of the legal chemicals they take that morally are pretty grim...

If something is not illegal, then regardless of your personal standpoint, it should be considered fair game. Caffeine is a stimulant yet has not been made illegal, ergo it's ok. Where individuals draw a "moral" line is ambiguous, and therefore you can only go by what's on the list. Unfortunately there is not a list of what is specifically legal as far as I am aware.

I accept morality has to come into it for newly developed drugs, as the banned list can't be immediately up to date with new developments, and hence certain drugs/practices are retrospectively banned. Yet long standing drugs that a change of stance is then applied to, are only prospectively banned (i.e. had Sharapova stopped taking that med she was on from the date it was added to the banned list, she'd have been fine as its illegality was not made retrospective). So if a drug/product is well established and on the market for a long time and not on the list, I think it's fair enough to chuck it in the coffee bucket and say it's just a legal "aid".

Otherwise you'd just end up with athletes only allowed natural food and water, with all forms of electrolytes, protein shakes, vitamins, etc, off limits.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my personal moral standpoint is that i wouldn't want my kids pumped full of drugs legal or otherwise...

the old caffeine argument has been pretty lame for a while and just supports the worst aspects of the pro teams...
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ed_m




Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 8161
Location: coventry

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go old school...

Legal:
Caffeine
Alchohol
Nicotine
Amphetamines

Illegal:
Lycra
More than 6 gears
Sneaky little motors
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tin pot




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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stenard wrote:
Otherwise you'd just end up with athletes only allowed natural food and water, with all forms of electrolytes, protein shakes, vitamins, etc, off limits.


Because that would be terrible....
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hammerer
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
had an interesting chat with an ex pro cyclist yesterday who listed some of the legal chemicals they take that morally are pretty grim...

HammerBlow will be along in a minute to protect the last Mod standing... Smile


You leave Bradley alone.

Laughing
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hammerer
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with JC's standpoint on all artificial aids, I also dont take the protein shakes / energy drinks / caffeine argument either as all are not artifical aids, no more than a can of coke is artificial. They are food stuffs. vitamins are a tough one, again maybe not as its "artificial" but my line is, as JC said earlier, "Would I let my son take it". a lot of the "legal" drugs are a firm no but if they arent banned then they are fair game for anyone else.
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JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"This period of time has been a living hell for me and my family"

A little perspective may have been useful, I can think of a few things that I might describe as a living hell, war, famine, disease etc. I think some of these sports people/celebrities really need to keep one foot in the real world.

Self inflicted investigation caused by dubious use of TUEs and other shady practices I'm not sure falls into that category.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next weeks news....have BC & Brad have been investing in Offshore funds.
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Pedro Peru




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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
Next weeks news....have BC & Brad have been investing in Offshore funds.

With lots of shares in Bayer.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaRok2300 wrote:
"This period of time has been a living hell for me and my family"

A little perspective may have been useful, I can think of a few things that I might describe as a living hell, war, famine, disease etc. I think some of these sports people/celebrities really need to keep one foot in the real world.

Self inflicted investigation caused by dubious use of TUEs and other shady practices I'm not sure falls into that category.


my thoughts exactly...
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stenard




Joined: 04 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
my personal moral standpoint is that i wouldn't want my kids pumped full of drugs legal or otherwise...

the old caffeine argument has been pretty lame for a while and just supports the worst aspects of the pro teams...

I dont think it is lame. It's an extreme example of different viewpoints of what's ok. TinPot for example would appear of the view of nothing being allowed. Hammerer on the other hand considers caffeine, protein shakes etc to not be artificial aids, but I know people who consider them to be. If you want the protein, eat more protein based foods. Whey protein powder is artificially extracted from other food products, so it isn't "natural".

It's no different from the tax avoidance argument. An ISA is the coffee in this sense. Noone would argue using an ISA is morally wrong tax avoidance, but it is tax avoidance nonetheless. So saying "tax avoidance is morally reprehensible" is just diluting a very complex and grey area, where large swathes of the population have different moral viewpoints.

Hence, what is defined to be legal and illegal, as potentially decided by the courts, is the only way an athlete can be fundamentally criticised as far as I am concerned.
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