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Sub missing in South Atlantic...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14808
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Sub missing in South Atlantic... Reply with quote

Fill yer boots....
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Tigger




Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 2765
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If only there was some easy way of finding it? You know, from an arm chair or some where in Scotland?

More seriously, I really feel for their families. It's a horrible situation.
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2639

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took longer than I expected...


It is however entirely possible to find it from an armchair in Scotland, as long as you have...

1. Someone competent in the US declassified crv stage 2 level, who is able to feel temperature, density and salinity changes.

2. A mathematician with a big computer.

3. Access to current global ocean sensor data.

The US Military admit to having employed such people for over a decade.

Canít imagine they, and other nations, donít still do today. Quietly. Russian retired ones also went public after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Instead of taking the p@ss I hope that America or any other nation with access to such oceanographic data is lending a hand, especially if they do still have a viewing team.

Keep up.
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CrazyGirl




Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 2332
Location: No longer walking in a Wigan wonderland!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:


1. Someone competent in the US declassified crv stage 2 level, who is able to feel temperature, density and salinity


What do you think he will do part the seas and feed them with bread and fish? Confused Shocked
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2639

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrazyGirl wrote:
SloggingScotsman wrote:


1. Someone competent in the US declassified crv stage 2 level, who is able to feel temperature, density and salinity


What do you think he will do part the seas and feed them with bread and fish? Confused Shocked
his or her job (yes women are represented in the ranks of past US military viewers).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Submarine-Locating-Stewart-Edwards-ebook/dp/B06XBYH22Y

I just took what the US military declassified, used the first 2 (of six details and several more noted) stages, became reasonably competent at that level myself after shedloads of self training and practice, and applied it with maths and oceanography to a problem noted in The Economist.

I put some noses out in the viewing community, but one of those trainers did tell me that my approach was Ďcleverí. A newbie teaching the instructors how to progress! ((Publicly the ex US military spooks have only taught how to develop through the stages to get detail on a target. I personally struggled to get past stage 3. My approach only requires the initial two stages, a bit of maths and hard science).

Look I am not looking for any animosity here, just remember that Ejc started this thread, and Tigger took over.

Even the British government has declassified stuff on this (with tons redacted).

You are about forty years out of date if you donít believe in this. I have got some goats to go stare at.


Last edited by SloggingScotsman on Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14808
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SloggingScotsman wrote:
Took longer than I expected...


It is however entirely possible to find it from an armchair in Scotland, as long as you have...

1. Someone competent in the US declassified crv stage 2 level, who is able to feel temperature, density and salinity changes.

2. A mathematician with a big computer.

3. Access to current global ocean sensor data.

The US Military admit to having employed such people for over a decade.

Canít imagine they, and other nations, donít still do today. Quietly. Russian retired ones also went public after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Instead of taking the p@ss I hope that America or any other nation with access to such oceanographic data is lending a hand, especially if they do still have a viewing team.

Keep up.


Either that, or it doesn't work...

Wake up.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14808
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tigger wrote:
If only there was some easy way of finding it? You know, from an arm chair or some where in Scotland?

More seriously, I really feel for their families. It's a horrible situation.


Indeed....I am just saddened that it hasn't been found
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2639

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ejc

While I obviously canít test sub hunting, you would need military (probably US type military) resources re oceanographic data, I do know that viewing does work, and as you know have published my own data, and some of my own blind sessions are online.

Enough deja vu Ejc.

You live in your bubble and I will live in mine, while I develop such skills further. (Should clarify I havenít crvíd for a couple of years now as explained previously, but am working on ways to make it more useful, eg sub hunting, after all there are plenty of viewers in our world, and they are not hard to find. Hopefully in a few more years I will have made some inroads into reliability issues).

The fair criticisms Ejc, as I have mentioned before are (1) reliability, (2) usefulness, and the (3) expectation gap between what was proven by scientists at Stanford and what you may expect. Itís a bit like the expectations gap auditors face.

Ejc perhaps it is you who needs to wake up.


Last edited by SloggingScotsman on Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2639

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In an effort to prevent yet another deterioration into taking the p@ss, and going round and round the merry go round, I am going to let Ejc have his inevitable last word.

Now where do I leave those goats?
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep, school boy error on my part sloggers, I just thought what a fantastic opportunity to promote those skills to a wider audience...
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Gus




Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 2326
Location: Freezing my nads off in Aberdoom

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe one of our own research ships is now involved in the search & rescue.

Hope it's our boys that find it - would be great for Argie relations post Falklands. I spent a lot of time in Argentina a few years ago - lovely people, lovely place.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 14808
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
I believe one of our own research ships is now involved in the search & rescue.

Hope it's our boys that find it - would be great for Argie relations post Falklands. I spent a lot of time in Argentina a few years ago - lovely people, lovely place.


Spectacular place by all accounts but not quite sure they have recovered from the junta...I hope it's find quickly by anyone or anything, not sure I care about which nationality
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JeffB




Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 1041
Location: Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure I read on one article that it is possible they've just got a comms failure, and would probably just continue on with the mission.

Possibly a bit optimistic though.

Jeff
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Tigger




Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 2765
Location: Hampshire

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeffB wrote:
Possibly a bit optimistic though.


Yep Sad
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SloggingScotsman




Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2639

PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

0793Canít believe that I am agreeing with Ejc again.


Viewing needs to be done blind/double blind, as imagination easily takes over and engulfs data into nonsense. So take this stage two data with a pinch of salt, but I post it in the hope that if it makes sense to anyone looking, it may help. But bearing in mind that it is front loaded and most definitely not being done blind hence it is probably just my imagination. But time being of the essence.

Ejc, just ignore this please, but the temperature differentials are all over the place on this. Warmish outside, hot on the Ďskiní of the boat yet seemingly freezing cold inside. That makes zero sense to me. And it is confusing.

And the Ďpingingí all around is as confusing as anything. But those pings seem to be emmenating externally, primarily from the west south west, closeish to a natural structure ( I know oceans are full of mountains). Seems to be in the water.

As this isnít a proper session I will stop. Give you something to laugh at while helping you understand what stage two data is.


If you have a team of currently trained viewers (who can also do salinity and density) you could get heaps more data, through time, to correlate against ocean sensor data, as I explained in my book. Best if the team didnít read the news and they must be blind to it. Though you can bet that at least one amateur team, and hopefully some professional teams are already on it. I mean there is at least one other viewer here (who I wonít out).

Apologies all, but having had a rare flash of numbers that go in an instant, I felt motivated to post as those are rare but I am working on grabbing them as if you could get GPs coordinates that would be quite something. But they are so darn fleeting, and rare.

Ejc, I reiterate again, not being blind and being two years plus out of practice, my thoughts above are probably just immagination. Just let it go. Please.


Last edited by SloggingScotsman on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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