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Brexit - seeing it from the other perspective
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezy wrote:
explorerJC wrote:



The only people who get what they now want are the Remoaners...


I can assure you JC, that as an ardent remoaner this is far from what I want.


What is it that you wanted?

Wheezy wrote:
I think the next decade could be very bumpy for us as a country, because basically, no one is happy or likely to be.
.


No, indeed, and it is going to be hard to carry on whilst missing out on all that EU efficiency...


Wheezy wrote:

I think I'm just going to hole up in my turbo dungeon for the foreseeable future.


I had planned that all along Smile
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Wheezy




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
explorerJC wrote:



The only people who get what they now want are the Remoaners...


I can assure you JC, that as an ardent remoaner this is far from what I want.


What is it that you wanted?

Eer, to stay in the EU! Smile

Wheezy wrote:
I think the next decade could be very bumpy for us as a country, because basically, no one is happy or likely to be.
.


No, indeed, and it is going to be hard to carry on whilst missing out on all that EU efficiency...

I hardly think our Government has been a model of efficiency in the last 12 months. Laughing


Wheezy wrote:

I think I'm just going to hole up in my turbo dungeon for the foreseeable future.


I had planned that all along Smile


Let's agree on that then. Smile
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Wheezy




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been on here 10 years now, and still can't do multiple quotes Shocked
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezy wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
explorerJC wrote:



The only people who get what they now want are the Remoaners...


I can assure you JC, that as an ardent remoaner this is far from what I want.


What is it that you wanted?

Eer, to stay in the EU! Smile

Wheezy wrote:
I think the next decade could be very bumpy for us as a country, because basically, no one is happy or likely to be.
.


No, indeed, and it is going to be hard to carry on whilst missing out on all that EU efficiency...

I hardly think our Government has been a model of efficiency in the last 12 months. Laughing


Wheezy wrote:

I think I'm just going to hole up in my turbo dungeon for the foreseeable future.


I had planned that all along Smile


Let's agree on that then. Smile


indeed...see you on the other side, with me perhaps a bit fitter....
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 15760
Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Wheezy wrote:
explorerJC wrote:



The only people who get what they now want are the Remoaners...


I can assure you JC, that as an ardent remoaner this is far from what I want.


What is it that you wanted?

Eer, to stay in the EU! Smile

Wheezy wrote:
I think the next decade could be very bumpy for us as a country, because basically, no one is happy or likely to be.
.


No, indeed, and it is going to be hard to carry on whilst missing out on all that EU efficiency...

I hardly think our Government has been a model of efficiency in the last 12 months. Laughing


Wheezy wrote:

I think I'm just going to hole up in my turbo dungeon for the foreseeable future.


I had planned that all along Smile


Let's agree on that then. Smile


indeed...see you on the other side, with me perhaps a bit fitter....


have now seen the other answers... Smile

I still haven't seen a single valid argument as to why the EU is good....beyond what people had hoped that it would bring...

...and certainly the UK government is not efficient, but that is hardly call to increase the levels of governance and cost...
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Gus




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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What also gets me is many people who want to Remain are assuming they're supporting us staying with the status quo with the EU.

I'm not entirely convinced they understand we're signing up to (an effectively permanent) attachment to what is shortly going to become a Federal United States of Europe. We will be subsumed into the US of E as just a small island province with no control whatsoever of our own destiny - that's where it's going, it's no secret, with every element centralised to Brussels. That includes currency, taxation, law-making, interest rates etc. etc.. It includes winding down our own armed forces and relying on the new EU 'army' to defend our (read EU's) interests which fights not for our flag, but the EU... and so on.

Is this really what people want, when they support Remain? I know there are people who really do support this. But is this what all Remain voters are subscribing to?

I'm actually genuinely curious.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
What also gets me is many people who want to Remain are assuming they're supporting us staying with the status quo with the EU.

I'm not entirely convinced they understand we're signing up to (an effectively permanent) attachment to what is shortly going to become a Federal United States of Europe. We will be subsumed into the US of E as just a small island province with no control whatsoever of our own destiny - that's where it's going, it's no secret, with every element centralised to Brussels. That includes currency, taxation, law-making, interest rates etc. etc.. It includes winding down our own armed forces and relying on the new EU 'army' to defend our (read EU's) interests which fights not for our flag, but the EU... and so on.

Is this really what people want, when they support Remain? I know there are people who really do support this. But is this what all Remain voters are subscribing to?

I'm actually genuinely curious.


Me too...and I keep asking...
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CzP41004




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a Belgian, I have a feeling that the Brexit is something that both the UK and EU can take advantage of; the Brits will cut their interdependence with the structure and develop their "special relationship" with the USA and Commonwealth, while Europe can advance towards further integration and repel policies adopted only not to offend the UK. Why should the EU go towards further integration? Because right now it's halfway between an economic union and a federation, and has the downsides of both without enjoying all of the advantages...

What's interesting is that outside and non-state actors are either suffering or taking advantage from this situation, for example, companies are recentering their business towards Europe or the UK, which allows them to concentrate their marketing and competitivity efforts on a more homogenous market.

And then you've got things that don't change. Brexit or not, many Brits are still interested to buy estate abroad, even luxury stuff such as these [link removed], and France still welcomes tourists from the "perfidious Albion". I don't think that these situations will change, both sides have something to win (Brits have their holidays, other countries get their money), so even post-Brexit, I think that some countries will sign bilateral agreements with London.
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Doonhamer




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CzP41004 wrote:
As a Belgian, I have a feeling that the Brexit is something that both the UK and EU can take advantage of; the Brits will cut their interdependence with the structure and develop their "special relationship" with the USA and Commonwealth, while Europe can advance towards further integration and repel policies adopted only not to offend the UK. Why should the EU go towards further integration? Because right now it's halfway between an economic union and a federation, and has the downsides of both without enjoying all of the advantages...

What's interesting is that outside and non-state actors are either suffering or taking advantage from this situation, for example, companies are recentering their business towards Europe or the UK, which allows them to concentrate their marketing and competitivity efforts on a more homogenous market.

And then you've got things that don't change. Brexit or not, many Brits are still interested to buy estate abroad, even luxury stuff such as these [link removed], and France still welcomes tourists from the "perfidious Albion". I don't think that these situations will change, both sides have something to win (Brits have their holidays, other countries get their money), so even post-Brexit, I think that some countries will sign bilateral agreements with London.


Smooth.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doonhamer wrote:
CzP41004 wrote:
As a Belgian, I have a feeling that the Brexit is something that both the UK and EU can take advantage of; the Brits will cut their interdependence with the structure and develop their "special relationship" with the USA and Commonwealth, while Europe can advance towards further integration and repel policies adopted only not to offend the UK. Why should the EU go towards further integration? Because right now it's halfway between an economic union and a federation, and has the downsides of both without enjoying all of the advantages...

What's interesting is that outside and non-state actors are either suffering or taking advantage from this situation, for example, companies are recentering their business towards Europe or the UK, which allows them to concentrate their marketing and competitivity efforts on a more homogenous market.

And then you've got things that don't change. Brexit or not, many Brits are still interested to buy estate abroad, even luxury stuff such as these [link removed], and France still welcomes tourists from the "perfidious Albion". I don't think that these situations will change, both sides have something to win (Brits have their holidays, other countries get their money), so even post-Brexit, I think that some countries will sign bilateral agreements with London.


Smooth.


Yep, but it was in part that desire to become a federation that our previous governments were in complete denial about....and it has cost them dear....
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GrahamO




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CzP41004 wrote:
As a Belgian,........


Without the EU, your country would have nothing of value other than decent beer.

When the EU implodes, Belgium will be like Albania only with more drunks Very Happy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty7qO_RCnWA
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Tony Stark




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like the Polish are going to beat us at getting out of the EU at this rate.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony Stark wrote:
Looks like the Polish are going to beat us at getting out of the EU at this rate.


Yep, that's what you get for thinking you have some sort of right to manage your own affairs
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Nobbie




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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The irony of the EU taking action against a member state for failing in it's commitment to democracy when the EU changed the governments of both Greece and Italy without any reference to the electorates in those countries. Mario Monti had never been elected to anything before, but had been an EU commissioner- perfect qualification Rolling Eyes
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobbie wrote:
The irony of the EU taking action against a member state for failing in it's commitment to democracy when the EU changed the governments of both Greece and Italy without any reference to the electorates in those countries. Mario Monti had never been elected to anything before, but had been an EU commissioner- perfect qualification Rolling Eyes


Indeed...post modernists don't do irony, sadly...in fact they do irony, lots of it. they just don't get irony...
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