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Brexit - seeing it from the other perspective
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should imagine Trump is writing cheques he cannot cash, which is a shame for those who voted for him based on those promises. Do people think Trump gives a damn about anything but the 'game'... he's the biggest Troll on the planet.

Hegemony will exist in one flavour or another, whoever people vote for.
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gus wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Trumpet is not doing himself any favours, that said, the Beeb really have it in for him...


The thing is, it's not just the Beeb. It's pretty much all of the MSM, every 'celebrity', every liberal-leaning lovie and snowflake all seem to be very vocal in spreading nastiness about him - he really is painted as the devil incarnate.

But as per my earlier point, he is popular amongst ordinary people. The people whose views are not given voice to by anyone in the public domain. The more the above vocalise their anger and smear him, the more popular he becomes. Primarily because his supporters absolutely despise the establishment and everything it represents, so the establishment getting so upset gives them encouragement that he really is speaking for them.

IMO it's a complete breath of fresh air.

And, incidentally, I think the reason I like him and what's happened is because is so very similar to the Brexit referendum. My social media was full (and regularly still is) of Remainers being very angry and vocal, implying that their view was the mainstream - which, as it turned out, wasn't.

I love this quote which perfectly sums up the current state of affairs in several big, recent topics:

“Because half a dozen grasshoppers under a fern make the field ring with their importunate chink, whilst thousands of great cattle, reposed beneath the shadow of the British oak, chew the cud and are silent, pray do not imagine that those who make the noise are the only inhabitants of the field.” - Edmund Burke


i agree with much of that...but still couldn't bring myself to like him...not that i have liked any US president particularly..
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
I should imagine Trump is writing cheques he cannot cash, which is a shame for those who voted for him based on those promises. Do people think Trump gives a damn about anything but the 'game'... he's the biggest Troll on the planet.


that's fairly consistent with most US presidents i would guess...
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
I should imagine Trump is writing cheques he cannot cash, which is a shame for those who voted for him based on those promises. Do people think Trump gives a damn about anything but the 'game'... he's the biggest Troll on the planet.


that's fairly consistent with most US presidents i would guess...


Except the Troll bit Wink
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jibberjim




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
he's the biggest Troll on the planet.


that's fairly consistent with most US presidents i would guess...[/quote]

Except the Troll bit Wink[/quote]

Pretty sure the "biggest on the planet" is not the US president, it's going to be one of those pacific islanders leaders I'd guess.
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jibberjim wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
he's the biggest Troll on the planet.


eJC wrote:
that's fairly consistent with most US presidents i would guess...


Except the Troll bit Wink


Pretty sure the "biggest on the planet" is not the US president, it's going to be one of those pacific islanders leaders I'd guess.


That'll be all the imported US food stuffs they live off.
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jibberjim




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
jibberjim wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
he's the biggest Troll on the planet.


eJC wrote:
that's fairly consistent with most US presidents i would guess...


Except the Troll bit Wink


Pretty sure the "biggest on the planet" is not the US president, it's going to be one of those pacific islanders leaders I'd guess.


That'll be all the imported US food stuffs they live off.


Let's get a trade deal with them, and export turnips!
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
I should imagine Trump is writing cheques he cannot cash, which is a shame for those who voted for him based on those promises. Do people think Trump gives a damn about anything but the 'game'... he's the biggest Troll on the planet.


that's fairly consistent with most US presidents i would guess...


Except the Troll bit Wink


would have been quite hard to spot before social media...and Obarmy's tweets were mainly pretty nauseating in a bumper sticker kind of way...

but one half of the US lap up one way, and the other half, the other...personally, i care for neither particularly...
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:

would have been quite hard to spot before social media...and Obarmy's tweets were mainly pretty nauseating in a bumper sticker kind of way...

but one half of the US lap up one way, and the other half, the other...personally, i care for neither particularly...


I'm not sure he realises that tweeting that muslims are bad people, is no different from another world leader saying Americans are gun-toting homicidal maniacs.

Apparently gun crime in the US is a result of 'psychological problems' not religion or ethnicity; and I'm sure islamic fundamentalism is also a particular state of mind, and one most muslims don't possess. More lives would be saved in america by removing (easy access to) guns from the equation than banning an ethnic group.

Serious digression I fear Smile
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explorerJC




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
explorerJC wrote:

would have been quite hard to spot before social media...and Obarmy's tweets were mainly pretty nauseating in a bumper sticker kind of way...

but one half of the US lap up one way, and the other half, the other...personally, i care for neither particularly...


I'm not sure he realises that tweeting that muslims are bad people, is no different from another world leader saying Americans are gun-toting homicidal maniacs.

Apparently gun crime in the US is a result of 'psychological problems' not religion or ethnicity; and I'm sure islamic fundamentalism is also a particular state of mind, and one most muslims don't possess. More lives would be saved in america by removing (easy access to) guns from the equation than banning an ethnic group.

Serious digression I fear Smile


In the loosest possible sense, islam may be considered an ethnic group i suppose, but it is a choice rather than a reality of birth...and i guess on whether you feel the oppression of women and the sexual minorities to be fundamentalist behaviour or not as key to an appropriate response. I am not sure where you get the data for your 'most' opinion, but would be interested to read it... Cafeteria religion helped reform christianity and islam also needs reform, but i would suggest this needs to come from within...and would certainly agree that the trumpbone is not the person to do this.

It is probable to say that much of the senseless death and violence is the result of the socially constructed environment; and the US is particularly poor at dealing internally with this particular issue, of course. But that is nothing new...

To the outside world, historically at least, americans are gun toting maniacs. Their foreign policy has been littered with examples..

Equally, it is fair to say that there are parts of the world that could do with a moment or two of honest reflection and anything we can do to support this - such as providing honest observations rather than fanciful wishes of what we wish reality to be - would be advantageous...
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Jorgan




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

explorerJC wrote:
the oppression of women and the sexual minorities to be fundamentalist behaviour or not as key to an appropriate response. I am not sure where you get the data for your 'most' opinion


I'm not sure Trump's attitude toward women can be held up as an exemplar Laughing

I am confident that most muslim people (by choice, birth or the realities of living in a muslim state) are not plotting to murder their fellow man en-masse in a terror attack; if they were we'd be fcuked. Much like most Americans don't sit in their basements talking to their guns.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jorgan wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
the oppression of women and the sexual minorities to be fundamentalist behaviour or not as key to an appropriate response. I am not sure where you get the data for your 'most' opinion


I'm not sure Trump's attitude toward women can be held up as an exemplar Laughing

.


Absolutely, but but you can point that out without being (wrongly) accused of being racist...


Jorgan wrote:
explorerJC wrote:
the oppression of women and the sexual minorities to be fundamentalist behaviour or not as key to an appropriate response. I am not sure where you get the data for your 'most' opinion


I am confident that most muslim people (by choice, birth or the realities of living in a muslim state) are not plotting to murder their fellow man en-masse in a terror attack; if they were we'd be fcuked. Much like most Americans don't sit in their basements talking to their guns.


in the first point, that says more about your idea of fundamentalism...my base is a little more broad and addresses the issue you avoided....and, in the second, I am not too sure about that... Smile
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Wheezy




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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slightly back on thread topic....


Another General Election within three months? Can't see May surviving much longer after today.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezy wrote:
Slightly back on thread topic....


Another General Election within three months? Can't see May surviving much longer after today.


if the public really want Corbyn, i suppose they can have him...but very few people with any knowledge of the 20C would want to make that call...
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Gus




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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wheezy wrote:
Slightly back on thread topic....


Another General Election within three months? Can't see May surviving much longer after today.


I think her clock has been counting down and it accelerated over the last 24 hours.

I don't think we'll have a GE (I don't think the Tories are THAT suicidal yet) - judging by the comments in most Tory press it would be a landslide Corbyn win (God help us) so I don't think even the Tory party are that stupid. I remain curious as to the deafening silence of Boris and Rees Mogg - I suspec they are keeping their powder very dry at the moment.

However, I've been waiting for the 'powers behind the throne' to make their move and a bit astonished they haven't so far. I suspect the main reason is that the last thing the Tories need at the moment is yet more instability... but I think now they are beginning to realise she's becoming a serious liability. The anger I read in the comments sections by the grass-roots Tories is the worst I've ever seen against the leadership (even worse than in the Major days, and that was bad). Hence I think the 1922 Committee will be meeting shortly.

I was never a fan of May, but when she took the helm I thought she had the potential to be another Thatcher; she was gifted a platform in a momentous moment in our history that, had she done the right thing, would have catapulted her into the pantheon of 'great' PM's.

However, her series of cock-ups, mistakes, backtracking, incompetence, bad calls, misjudgements and her downright appallingly pathetic performance (read utter capitulation) over the EU negotiation has made me absolutely despise her beyond belief and I hope to God she is kicked out very soon before she can do any more damage.
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