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TRO Saracen




Joined: 18 Aug 2010
Posts: 971

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Race Weight Reply with quote

Having been within 6 minutes of KQ last year I'm looking to make a real run at it in 2018.

Race weight is one area I'm looking at for marginal gains - raced at 71kg last year and whilst pretty slim by most standards I'm wondering whether there's another kg or two to come off. 71 kg was lighter than I'd raced before and I was definitely better for it - but I know (from a couple of mates) that go too far down the road and you'll turn up too weak and/or be ill frequently. So quite hard to judge the ideal race weight.

Also currently just starting base training for 2018 and at 73kg, so also when best to shift the weight: now/ASAP, incrementally throughout training or get a kg or so above race weight then drop down in the last few weeks.

Any thoughts, advice, personal experience much appreciated!
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twhat




Joined: 28 Oct 2011
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Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gave up meat at the start of the year. I'd say vegetarian but i still eat fish and seafood so i think i'm 'pescatarian'. Weight loss wasnt really any reason at all but it has happened despite me being a beer and cake monster.
I eat as much as i want but make sure to include loads of fruit and veg variation as well as daily chia and flax seeds and assorted other Linwoods ground nut/seed sprinklings. I dont take any supplements.
I havent checked if i'm deficient in anything but i'm 3kg lighter (66kg v 69kg) and running faster than i ever have and feel pretty good. Blood pressure and cholestoral improved marginally too, not that there was any issue.
I dont swim or bike anymore though so training is just 3-5 hrs of running a week, maybe i'd feel the need to devour some red meat if i was on triathlon hours.....
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm interested to see the responses to this too. My gut feeling was that it would be better to to be able to put on a kilo on the last few weeks to make sure the body was not under nourished.
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'weight' is reflected mostly in hydration levels over the short term...so don't get too hung up on it as a sole point of focus...

Particularly for long endurance races, becoming more reliant on your physiology above your strength-endurance is key....so work on extending your training to become more energy efficient. Having a physiology to match the mechanical efficiency of cycling would be the perfect start point and (drugs aside) take a look through the long term development of pro cyclists...
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explorerJC




Joined: 20 Oct 2005
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Location: Farthingstone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i should add...having a solid platform to support what you want to achieve is also vital, along with appropriate form...a core that stays strong through the whole race (Craig Alexander springs to mind) would help...
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TRO Saracen




Joined: 18 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doca wrote:
I'm interested to see the responses to this too. My gut feeling was that it would be better to to be able to put on a kilo on the last few weeks to make sure the body was not under nourished.


If you need to put a Kg on to be 'not under nourished' in last few weeks then you would have been training before that while undernourished - surely sub optimal in terms of converting the hard work into body adaptations?
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JaRok2300




Joined: 01 May 2014
Posts: 219
Location: Worcester, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A timely topic given Holly Lawrence's recent blog (sorry can't link to it)

I'm a minimum of 10kg away from where I need to be, I dream of worrying about that last kg.
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
Posts: 209
Location: Preston

PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tro
We are the same weight, personally the heavier I am the faster I swim, I'm slow so we really are talking marginal gains here.

Bike power wise I think with a decent diet and a good training regime your body " naturally" gets to the optimum weight for the work it has to perform.

I was grams away from 70 kg in my last race and ran well despite a long term running injury most of the year.
IIRC your a strong biker ?
Michael Hutchinson used to try and race underweight, and ultimately went slower until he returned to the weight his body needed to be.

Personally if I was 70 kg now I would probably get a cold immediately !



That said being fit and healthy at 70 kg, with as JC says a really good base of work is were I hope to be come March for the first race.

We're will you try and qualify?
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moonmonkey02




Joined: 30 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i had my fastest LD race this year and was a couple of kg heavier than in previous years: i was much stronger on the bike and ran better as a result whilst less susceptible to illness/injuries during training.

if you're trying to lose weight nearer the race i think you're asking for trouble as you'll be in peak training volume/stress.

usually i'll try and shift a few kg's during base/early build training when the training isn't too taxing.

don't be tempted in losing those last few kg's in the weeks before the race by trying some of Bertie's special beef laced with clenbuterol.
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TRO Saracen




Joined: 18 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mungo wrote:
Tro
Bike power wise I think with a decent diet and a good training regime your body " naturally" gets to the optimum weight for the work it has to perform.
We're will you try and qualify?


Florida is my best shot, as it suits my riding (lots of UK dual carriageway TT's) more than Wales. Bike weight is not much of a factor at IMFL, more watts per CDA being so flat, so a couple of Kg either way is pretty irrelevant, as long as I can hold watts. It's really the run where I am interested in potential gains, with weight loss. I got off the bike 3rd AG but run out of it by 6 minutes a month ago.

Not just hauling the extra kg's around, but also have been told that being lean helps in a hot race. Just fishing for info/experiences really. I know there's plenty of other things to do to help get that 6 minutes, but casting the net wide.... Wink
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Mungo




Joined: 29 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tro
Your hardly heavy unless your 5ft 4?!
But if your a drag strip tt guy then play to your strengths.
I found regular brick sessions as my main session every week helped my 70.3 progress.

A recent assessment got a few people looking at my swim form... said there was more time there % wise than on dry land. You a fish?

What were qualifying times last year for your AG?
It has to be faster than Wales in the rain?!
When is it?
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mattsurf




Joined: 28 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting Topic, I am currently 76kg, up 3kg from last season. I actually went up to 78kg, I found that changing my diet to reduce carbs and increase fish, cheese and fruit results in my weight dropping by around 1kg per week.

At 73kg last season I was still a little heavy, (only 173cm tall), I would like to get down to 69kg by next June. However, as a triathlete doing a reasonable volume of training, I don't find loosing weight too hard

I plan to stay around 75kg over winter, for a couple of reasons (probably all misplaced): firstly, when I dropped weight last year, my running speed jumped dramatically, and then stabilised, I am hoping to get that "launch" as I build up to the season. Secondly as I live in Switzerland, and it is cold, I notice that the slimmer riders in our club really suffer with cold, a little bit of extra insulation is a benefit for winter cycling and skiiing. Finally I have just bought new skiing clothes (all size S) I can't afford another set if I loose 5 or 6kg
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Roscoemck




Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 301
Location: Glasgow

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm currently 72kg and 5'7". I managed to get to 76kg during the summer, pretty much my heaviest for 4 years.

I find I feel a lot better when I'm in the region of 68-70kg. I also seem to perform a lot better.

Pretty good diet all round, don't drink, don't eat meat. Major vices are crisps and biscuits. Weekends are when I succumb and boy can I get put them away.

Have reigned it in recently by not cutting them out but reducing them and making them a treat. Dropped 1.5kg in the last month and feel better for it already.
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Doca




Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TRO Saracen wrote:
Doca wrote:
I'm interested to see the responses to this too. My gut feeling was that it would be better to to be able to put on a kilo on the last few weeks to make sure the body was not under nourished.


If you need to put a Kg on to be 'not under nourished' in last few weeks then you would have been training before that while undernourished - surely sub optimal in terms of converting the hard work into body adaptations?


Maybe a wrong choice of words. If your losing weight in training up to an event then you must be in a calorie defect and I wonder if that is the best place to be for best performance in an endurance event. I figured that if you eat a little more in the weeks before the race and put a little bit of weight back on you would be sure to be on the right side of the calorie equation. As I said, only my musings and not any science.
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TRO Saracen




Joined: 18 Aug 2010
Posts: 971

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I googled about last night on the topic and found this:

https://www.alancouzens.com/blog/height_weight.html

For my height, both the graph of actual MPRO data, the little formula that he provides and the Joe Friel Ratio of 2.1-2.3 LBs per inch of height all give me a race weight of around 66kg. I'd have my build as pretty much medium - not a super heavy Potts, not a super light Lange.

Accept much of this is targeted at pro level competition, but I think it shows that my 71kg, whilst the leanest I have ever been on the start line is likely to be some way off the optimum.

Hmmmmm.....
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